creepy Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 what like three sides joined together and the fourth seperate possible or maybe the listed building coming into play as part of the 'seperate stand' who knows but thats what ive been told, but its off somebody who we all know on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepy Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 "The fact is". And you're calling me a dick. Who's easily wound up? You're like a blood kids toy. I throw figures, you throw crystal ball predictions. Btw, where are the millions coming from? Is the BP site worth £50m or more? Give me some sort of cost analysis or are you just working up the ££££s in your head based on all the bullcrap you've got floating in there? id like to see the actual figures TTA have got for the whole project, before i start with my figures thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Wigan and Blackburn, fair enough, but where was Bolton's big finacial backing when they started their climb into the Premiership in the mid-late 1990s? Burnden Leisure floated on the stock market and raised a fortune that set them up rather nicely. Their timing was probably a bit lucky. There will be no sugar daddy for a club that builds a stadium that screams nothing other than an ambition to tick over at lower division level. Why would anybody looking to invest in a football club not look for one that has genuine ambitions in the first place, as opposed to one that can always but always come up with an excuse as to why it can't compete with similar clubs in similar towns? While I doubt the sugar daddy will arrive, a potential buyer won't be looking at the ambitions of the previous owners. He'll have his own ambitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Burnden Leisure floated on the stock market and raised a fortune that set them up rather nicely. Their timing was probably a bit lucky. While I doubt the sugar daddy will arrive, a potential buyer won't be looking at the ambitions of the previous owners. He'll have his own ambitions. But Burnden Leisure didn't raise the kind of money for the football side of things on the scale of Blackburn or Wigan. In the early days of challenging for and being in the PL, Bolton spent relatively lightly. Own ambitions or not, a club in a 12000 capacity ground doesn't exactly look like it has big-time potential. Won't any potential new owner ask himself why previous owners saw fit to downscale the club in this way? Edited August 21, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 "The fact is". And you're calling me a dick. Who's easily wound up? You're like a blood kids toy. I throw figures, you throw crystal ball predictions. Btw, where are the millions coming from? Is the BP site worth £50m or more? Give me some sort of cost analysis or are you just working up the ££££s in your head based on all the bullcrap you've got floating in there? Ey up....Real's back with his calculator.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Ey up....Real's back with his calculator.... For somebody who does so much insisting on the facts from others, he's quick enough to pluck figures out of thin air when it serves his purpose. I am looking forward to the £4 million saved on seats being spent on the team, though. Edited August 21, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 For somebody who does so much insisting on the facts from others, he's quick enough to pluck figures out of thin air when it serves his purpose. I am looking forward to the £4 million saved on seats being spent on the team, though. But real knows all about OAFC (2004)'s incomings and outgoings, turnover, profit and financial projections...or at least he gave me the impression he did without actually 'throwing' any checkable figures my way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 But real knows all about OAFC (2004)'s incomings and outgoings, turnover, profit and financial projections...or at least he gave me the impression he did without actually 'throwing' any checkable figures my way... As I say, I'm just glad that all that money saved on seating is gonnna result in a team so damned good that we'll need about 4000 extra seats to accomodate all those who are going to want to come and watch it. Good job the ground's going to be (ahem) 'expandable.' Small stadiums: it's ambition, but not as you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 As in choosing not to believe somebody who declares that he wouldn't watch 'a Manchester-based club', purely because you don't want to believe them? That's using your brain, is it? Come on Corp, you seem like an intelligent fellow, your on the Oldham official message board. Its frequented by the diehards, do you really think a diehard, hardcore Oldham fan is really going to not go to games because it moves four miles down the road? You constantly moan about how the clubs going up the :censored:ter are you worried that all us happy clappers are gonna off when the hits the fan and leave you with little old oldham in the conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I don't know what he wants apart from maybe counselling. as far as i am aware,i havent made any threats of violence towards you..or threatened you in any way... i invited you to meet me before the or a game starts to have a chat grown up style,like adults do and chew the fat over why your so negative towrds this club,and its owners...and to a certain degree its fans as well. moving 4 miles down the road for some.its actually about 2 miles for me wont mean we lose our hardcore supporters etc etc....yes a good few may decide to leave and persue other activities on match days as a show of protest,but lets be honest,its a pretty piss poor excuse if they do,and you would have to question there allegiance to the club in the first place. but on the whole most people who frequent bp will go to the new ground,no matter where it is. it does to a certain degree open up new areas to exploit,but it would be very fool hardy to expect city and manure fans to jump on board just because its a new ground etc. now then....can i suggest we drop this arsey attitude you seem to have towards me,as at present were having the crack,banter etc..but the more posted the more personal your making things...and i really wouldnt want things to get personal between you and me.....thats not what the purpose of the board is for now is it.its for discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 1. Creepy. You now say you want to see some figures from TTA before you show how they will walk away with £millions£ in their pockets. So how do you substantiate your claim then? You said they'll get the money - how? 2. YardDog - quell surprise. Cyber-stalker snipes again. Nothing added from you but at least you and corp could do a bit of mutual tugging eh. 3. Corp, whatever way you look at the cost of seating and the playing budget, the fact is that the owners have a limited amount of resources. If you believe that spending £1m, £2m, £3m or £4m (or wwhatever 4000 seats cost) on seating that will not provide a reasonable return on the investment would not then impact on other areas of spending, then there's really not much hope. It's pretty much done to death now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 It's pretty much done to death now. ...and in the previous ten million threads about something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) Personally I think it's good that someone holds a differing view and posts as such. It sparks debate and explores what lies in decisions. Rather than blindly go. I hold the view that this new proposal is indeed a down watered one of that to me there is no doubt. So with that line of thinking it holds true that the club as down scaled it's ambition. We know as Latics supporters that our successes are few and accept that, but to aim for less leaves me demoralized. Edited August 22, 2009 by Lags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Personally I think it's good that someone holds a differing view and posts as such. It sparks debate and explores what lies in decisions. Rather than blindly go. I hold the view that this new proposal is indeed a down watered one of that to me there is no doubt. So with that line of thinking it holds true that the club as down scaled it's ambition. We know as Latics supporters that our successes are few and accept that, but to aim for less leaves me demoralized. Yes, yes and no. The view isn't that different. Most I would think agree that it is a downwatered scheme, as it is undoubtedly so. The club has downscaled its ambition as it is not making money and there isn't any to go about. That we are aiming for being in this state for ever is where people differ. We may end up there. We are there now. But, we aren't aiming for there. It's just stupid to kill us now in an effort to be there in ten minutes. These arguments are great. In the thread of their subject. But this was about other locations as possible sites. Not about the ambitions of the club, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Come on Corp, you seem like an intelligent fellow, your on the Oldham official message board. Its frequented by the diehards, do you really think a diehard, hardcore Oldham fan is really going to not go to games because it moves four miles down the road? You constantly moan about how the clubs going up the :censored:ter are you worried that all us happy clappers are gonna off when the hits the fan and leave you with little old oldham in the conference? How many times do I have to say that I'm only going off what people have said on here? What they will really do when (and if) the time comes I have, like you, no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 as far as i am aware,i havent made any threats of violence towards you..or threatened you in any way... i invited you to meet me before the or a game starts to have a chat grown up style,like adults do and chew the fat over why your so negative towrds this club,and its owners...and to a certain degree its fans as well. moving 4 miles down the road for some.its actually about 2 miles for me wont mean we lose our hardcore supporters etc etc....yes a good few may decide to leave and persue other activities on match days as a show of protest,but lets be honest,its a pretty piss poor excuse if they do,and you would have to question there allegiance to the club in the first place. but on the whole most people who frequent bp will go to the new ground,no matter where it is. it does to a certain degree open up new areas to exploit,but it would be very fool hardy to expect city and manure fans to jump on board just because its a new ground etc. now then....can i suggest we drop this arsey attitude you seem to have towards me,as at present were having the crack,banter etc..but the more posted the more personal your making things...and i really wouldnt want things to get personal between you and me.....thats not what the purpose of the board is for now is it.its for discussions. I have nothing whatsoever against you, nor anybody else on here. After all, it isn't usually me who gets insulting first, and nor do I tend to write only about the supposed shortcomings of other people. In contrast, every time you, amongst others, appear on a thread I'm on, it's always to say the same reproachful stuff. This doesn't bother me in the slightest, but you shouldn't expect not to get a reaction (which you should keep in perspective; it's just words on a screen from anonymous posters-either that or put those posters you don't like on ignore-apparently there's a way of doing this.) As for negativity towards what's going on at the club, why should that not be permissable if somebody thinks there's very good reason to feel negative? Personally,when it comes to this club, I gave up on the wishful thinking some time ago. And if the comments about people not going to the new ground are aimed at me they're misdirected, as I haven't said I won't go, although if the club does ever drop into the basement division, I think I'll probably find something less expensive and soul-destroying to do with my Saturdays, for the first time since the 1970s (except when living abroad.) And I doubt if I'll be the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 3. Corp, whatever way you look at the cost of seating and the playing budget, the fact is that the owners have a limited amount of resources. If you believe that spending £1m, £2m, £3m or £4m (or wwhatever 4000 seats cost) on seating that will not provide a reasonable return on the investment would not then impact on other areas of spending, then there's really not much hope. I, like you, have no idea how much it would cost to keep to the capacity that was being proposed for the BP redevelopment. I do, however, suspect that it would cost a lot more in the future, if the vaunted expansion were to take place. It will not be an issue, however, as no expansion will be needed, which is why a 12000 stadium is being proposed in the first place: the idea of permanent lower division football has been accepted (and which is why most of the money supposedly saved on seating will not be going towards a class of player capable of getting us us out of this division either.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 These arguments are great. In the thread of their subject. But this was about other locations as possible sites. Not about the ambitions of the club, again. It inevitably comes down to the ambitions of the club, as debate about sites is so much bread and circuses: as has been made clear, it's the downscaled effort at Failsworth or nowt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepy Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 1. Creepy. You now say you want to see some figures from TTA before you show how they will walk away with £millions£ in their pockets. So how do you substantiate your claim then? You said they'll get the money - how? You should be asking TTA how they are making millions out of this project - or instead ask yourself As you point out losing 4000 seats and down grading to a 12000 seater, will as you say save TTA £4m. im not going to speculate with figures until i have facts in front of me (which wont happen), ill leave that to you real as Corney pointed out at the forum, TTA WILL be making money out of this project, with the down grading and these being businessmen, i doubt it will be just a few grand. To me this idea of a 12000 seater stadium smells of, TTA making as much as they can before they sell the club leaving us with a lower league stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 To me this idea of a 12000 seater stadium smells of, TTA making as much as they can before they sell the club leaving us with a lower league stadium Exactly, and people are chuffed to bits. There will be some calling for the stadium to be named after TTA no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 You should be asking TTA how they are making millions out of this project - or instead ask yourself As you point out losing 4000 seats and down grading to a 12000 seater, will as you say save TTA £4m. im not going to speculate with figures until i have facts in front of me (which wont happen), ill leave that to you real as Corney pointed out at the forum, TTA WILL be making money out of this project, with the down grading and these being businessmen, i doubt it will be just a few grand. To me this idea of a 12000 seater stadium smells of, TTA making as much as they can before they sell the club leaving us with a lower league stadium Spot on. It's bollocks. And it's as clear as day to anyone with ounce of commonsense that TTA now want as quick and as profitable exit as possible. I wouldn't be bothered, as they're entitled to it, only they're leaving us in Manchester, well off our manor, miles away from our heartland and deep in the territory of Man U and Man C, with a scaled-down stadium. It's bollocks and I cannot believe how much support the scheme appears to have on here. You know, I think some people are just scared of upsetting TTA in case they throw their toys out the pram and depart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) You know, I think some people are just scared of upsetting TTA in case they throw their toys out the pram and depart... You don't think that, you know it. At least it would force us to seek investment, which could be a good thing. It could also spell the end, but seeing as we're 'one of the best run clubs' or whatever we would hardly be in the same position as 2003. An end of sorts is nigh anyway, in my book. Edited August 22, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Ok, you all agree with creepy that TTA will make a big profit out of this deal, but none of you have any figures, speculative or informed to substantiate this belief. It's a novel way to form an opinion, on nothing, not even guesswork. They paid about £6m for the BP land (council should have the figures). They've spent about (at least?) £250k to cover losses each year (should be in the accounts - are they published?). BP is about 18 acres (iirc - should be eay to establish). When OMBC originally bought the BP site, they put some sort of planning through for 330 houses (to cover the council tax payer against any loss). £200k per house sale price would mean that the land is worth about £66k per plot. That puts the site at a value of £22m, leaving a rough profit of £15m If they can buy the failsworth land and build a stadium for under £15m, they may well make a profit on their 5 year+ investment. i'd guess they won't make much out of it, but i don't know the cost of the stadium or the land to be paid for. (awaits others to shoot him down, saying "it's all guesswork", whilst making unsubstantiated claims to the contrary and failing to back them up with anything at all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) OK, to me this idea of a 12000 seater stadium smells of TTA recouping as much as they can before they sell the club leaving us with a lower league stadium. At the end of the day Latics will have paid for their losses via the land. TTA will have contributed little, if anything. I think they have panicked and want out asap whilst maintaining their word to a degree. Edited August 22, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) (awaits others to shoot him down, saying "it's all guesswork", whilst making unsubstantiated claims to the contrary and failing to back them up with anything at all) The figures might be guesswork, but the principle is sound. Edited August 22, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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