ritchie82 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 If you honestly believe as little as £3M a season is enough to guarantee anything, even at our level, you are very naive. How much do you think Leeds have spent in the last 3 years? Naive? No your more stupid than naive. You were talking about an extra 4million being spent on the playing side rather than land. In the 1st 2 or 3 seasons had that money been spent on two proper strikers then we would have gone up. The play off side with Lambert and Graham in there would have blown the league away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Naive? No your more stupid than naive. You were talking about an extra 4million being spent on the playing side rather than land. In the 1st 2 or 3 seasons had that money been spent on two proper strikers then we would have gone up. The play off side with Lambert and Graham in there would have blown the league away. Thanks for proving my point. If the real world was as simple as yours, wouldn't Leeds have "blown the league away" first time round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie82 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Thanks for proving my point. If the real world was as simple as yours, wouldn't Leeds have "blown the league away" first time round? No fact is they spent it and didn't make it, but we have had sides in TTA's first few years that were almost blowing the league away without that extra money being spent but faded due to small squads and :censored:e back ups. Had that £4million been pumped into the squad or the starting XI it would have improved the side and lead to promotion, i'm 99% certain of that. No Alan Blayney in goal at Blackpool for example. We may have been in the position Barnsley and Blackpool find themselves now rather than treading water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 It's all ifs and buts though. More money improves the chances, but never makes it a certainty. I've been thinking about what degree of investment the club would need to buy out TTA and develop the club from the football side outwards. i.e. stay at BP, get the team into the Championship, then worry about ground redevelopment. (Although given the state of BP, you might sensibly opt to build a new Broadway stand sooner rather than later...) The unfortunate truth is that unless Oldham's answer to Dave Whelan turns up (if there is one), our chances are slim. i.e. I think for a new owner to come in with the right investment level to keep us at BP and get us into the Championship, he would need to be worth upwards of £100M. (I'm not saying he'd need to put in £100M, but that he'd need to be worth that to be able to back the kind of money he would need to put in - probably £25-30M in 5 years!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Moore's paper wealth was £40-50M before the sh*t hit the Torex fan. He was worth alot less than that by the time he bailed. It keeps coming round to increasingly scary numbers. The importance of buying back the ground cannot be overstated (and I never understood why Moore didn't do it), but when you look at what TTA have spent, owning a piece of land worth maybe £3-4M (at a very wild guess) is all they really have to show for something like a £15M investment. Had all of that £15M been invested purely on the playing side over the past 5 years, there's still no guarantee it would have bought us promotion. Someone told me last week that a sauce at the club had told them TTA were gonna fleece latics as the land is now worth about £48 million. Unfortunately the person, for whom i have some degree of respect for what he does, was talking through his arris. If memory serves me right (and I think I posted something on this a week or so ago) the council put in plans for housing when they bought BP - 300 houses on the whole plot - which seems to stack up with an 18 acre site. The reckoning on house building is 1/3rd land, 1/3rd build cost, 1/3rd profit. To get £48m, you'd have to fit 300 houses worth £480k each. A little unrealistic I think. I'd go for somewhere between £150k and £200k, which at the mean figure would give a value of £17.5m roughly. Could be £15m, could possibly be £22m, but then you've got to buy the land for the new ground and sort that out. Edited August 27, 2009 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FyldeBlue Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Chris Moore wasn't incredibly wealthy by the standards of football club owners nowadays. The great tragedy for Latics (and what might yet turn out to have been the final nail in the coffin) was the fact that CM's paper wealth was around £40 million and not £400m. You seem to have any uncanny ability to miss the point. Is it being a character invented by Enid Blyton that does it? At times Corp... sorry most times you post on OWTB you attempt to say the opposite of what others say !... presumably wind up merchant, not in my view though, for you to suggest I've an uncanny habit of missing the point is just about as far off the mark you can get, however of course we're dealing with the guy that thinks big words make him someone special, can't be - this is Corp Jones and most of the time he is simply the most negative, miserable poster on OWTB. In answer to your first point when you commented about Chris Moore, I was not expressing an opinion of his wealth against any other football club owners, I was comparing him to yourself as you appear to have all the answers but not a bloody penny to put on the table! Either cough up or shut up if you can't solve the Latics problems that you alone appear to be creating more than anyone else on here, Have a look at yourself pal - obseqious - no !....certainly not the Corp, obnoxious - ! ......most certainly. Lets suggest we have a poll on who is the most Negative and Obnoxious poster on OWTB ?.... I'll start that off with a suggestion to the mods. Edited August 27, 2009 by FyldeBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 £48M? You could buy up everything from Eastlands to Scouthead for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 At times Corp... rant rant blah blah Lets suggest we have a poll on who is the most Negative and Obnoxious poster on OWTB ?.... I'll start that off with a suggestion to the mods. Why don't you just ignore him rather than boring us all with your incoherent rantings? As for the poll, I reckon you might get a fair few votes yersel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FyldeBlue Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Why don't you just ignore him rather than boring us all with your incoherent rantings? As for the poll, I reckon you might get a fair few votes yersel... Get stuffed ! you take a long look at yourself whilst you're at at ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Get stuffed ! you take a long look at yourself whilst you're at at ! I avoid mirrors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FyldeBlue Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) I avoid mirrors... Not surprised really pal ! Edited August 27, 2009 by FyldeBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Actually, does anyone else think that looks a bit like Tall Pete? Edited August 27, 2009 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardOafc Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Firstly, I'm not saying people shouldn't question the motives or decisions of our owners. After Chris Moore we should all be vigilant, not complacent. Secondly, I'm no shill for TTA. This is a genuine question, not an attack on any poster. That said, why do some seem to think TTA are stupid or inept? Some posts on recent transfers imply that they're totally incompetent negotiators or businessmen. I find that difficult to believe; you don't get to where they are by being naïve, gullible or shy & retiring. We don't know what money we've made (and statements from other fans, friends of friends, or managers aren't reliable - there are reasons to underplay what you've made/spent). Sure, the rumoured fee for Eardley concerns me - but I really struggle to believe that if it's true it's because TTA are rubbish at agreeing fees. Maybe we should be asking why we don't tie good players to contracts sooner, or why they don't want to stay, but focusing on a perceived lack of business acumen might be a distraction from other valid questions. (Edited to clarify my question.) i think it was a brilliant bit of bussines for eardley,out of contract at end of season,cant cross,cant deffend,often gets left behind by a decent winger, 300k plus there maybe add ons i wouldnt pay 300 washers myself in this market for him,perhaps tta didnt want to get caught out again ala wellans/porter by a player running his contract down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 At times Corp... sorry most times you post on OWTB you attempt to say the opposite of what others say !... presumably wind up merchant, not in my view though, for you to suggest I've an uncanny habit of missing the point is just about as far off the mark you can get, however of course we're dealing with the guy that thinks big words make him someone special, can't be - this is Corp Jones and most of the time he is simply the most negative, miserable poster on OWTB. In answer to your first point when you commented about Chris Moore, I was not expressing an opinion of his wealth against any other football club owners, I was comparing him to yourself as you appear to have all the answers but not a bloody penny to put on the table! Either cough up or shut up if you can't solve the Latics problems that you alone appear to be creating more than anyone else on here, Have a look at yourself pal - obseqious - no !....certainly not the Corp, obnoxious - ! ......most certainly. Lets suggest we have a poll on who is the most Negative and Obnoxious poster on OWTB ?.... I'll start that off with a suggestion to the mods. You're missing the point again in that I haven't claimed to have any answers. As garcon says, short of me or someody else coming into the kind of money that sees me able to chuck £30 million or more Latics way, there probably are no answers. The purported solutions to the club's plight embodied in the idea of a small, lower division stadium will only drag the club down further. Have you ever thought that some people genuinly don't have the herd mentality displayed, amongst many other places, on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Why don't you just ignore him rather than boring us all with your incoherent rantings? As for the poll, I reckon you might get a fair few votes yersel... Fylde Blue makes me think of the nutter on the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 For the umpteenth time, it was a novel not a fecking text book! I thought it was a vomit-inducing porn film? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I thought it was a vomit-inducing porn film? That was the sequel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prendy_1984 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 i think it was a brilliant bit of bussines for eardley,out of contract at end of season,cant cross,cant deffend,often gets left behind by a decent winger, 300k plus there maybe add ons i wouldnt pay 300 washers myself in this market for him,perhaps tta didnt want to get caught out again ala wellans/porter by a player running his contract down. What a load of toss. That :censored:e he is starting for a Championship side, and has the potential to move onto better things still. And he had more assists at latics than anyone else last season, his crossing can't have been that bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Someone told me last week that a sauce at the club had told them TTA were gonna fleece latics as the land is now worth about £48 million. Unfortunately the person, for whom i have some degree of respect for what he does, was talking through his arris. If memory serves me right (and I think I posted something on this a week or so ago) the council put in plans for housing when they bought BP - 300 houses on the whole plot - which seems to stack up with an 18 acre site. The reckoning on house building is 1/3rd land, 1/3rd build cost, 1/3rd profit. To get £48m, you'd have to fit 300 houses worth £480k each. A little unrealistic I think. I'd go for somewhere between £150k and £200k, which at the mean figure would give a value of £17.5m roughly. Could be £15m, could possibly be £22m, but then you've got to buy the land for the new ground and sort that out. :applause1: :applause1: Hallebloodyluiah Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 No matter what the costs are the club has stood still while the TTA have been here. What happened to the ambition to get into the championship, make the club something the town could be proud of again.... yet to be seen. Instead they knock down a stand turning our ground into a **** hole, realise it isnt going to work and then say we have to move to failsworth or bust. They really did drop a bollock with that one, although the council didn't exactly help. Yes, god knows where we would be without them, thats a hypothetical question. But we have to question what they are doing and why they are doing it and whether its the best for the club. It can't simply be ignored because they were saviours years ago. I think the team is moving forward albeit slowly, we need to give DP time and he will get the job done, hopefully he will be getting all the backing he needs. But as for the club that remains to be seen, they have been here 5 years and all they have done is steadied the ship. If redeveloping boundary park was the plan before then why cant it still be an option now? If the land is still worth so much that it can fund a development of a new stadium and facilities then why cant we scale down or stagger our plans a bit? Building a decent main stand where the lookers used to be would give us a good ground IMO.... RRE and the chaddy are fine for now but could be upgraded with better facilities. All the TTA concentrated is the idea that we need a new ground with x y and z facilitys to be sustainable. Everything else seems to be ignored.... does make you think, is this anything more than a property development project for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) That was the sequel... Another 1948 Hours. Or am I mixing my Orwellian sequels? Edited August 27, 2009 by OldhamSheridan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 No matter what the costs are the club has stood still while the TTA have been here. What happened to the ambition to get into the championship, make the club something the town could be proud of again.... yet to be seen. Instead they knock down a stand turning our ground into a **** hole, realise it isnt going to work and then say we have to move to failsworth or bust. They really did drop a bollock with that one, although the council didn't exactly help. Yes, god knows where we would be without them, thats a hypothetical question. But we have to question what they are doing and why they are doing it and whether its the best for the club. It can't simply be ignored because they were saviours years ago. I think the team is moving forward albeit slowly, we need to give DP time and he will get the job done, hopefully he will be getting all the backing he needs. But as for the club that remains to be seen, they have been here 5 years and all they have done is steadied the ship. If redeveloping boundary park was the plan before then why cant it still be an option now? If the land is still worth so much that it can fund a development of a new stadium and facilities then why cant we scale down or stagger our plans a bit? Building a decent main stand where the lookers used to be would give us a good ground IMO.... RRE and the chaddy are fine for now but could be upgraded with better facilities. All the TTA concentrated is the idea that we need a new ground with x y and z facilitys to be sustainable. Everything else seems to be ignored.... does make you think, is this anything more than a property development project for them? Simply put mate, the land is worth more to TTA and a potential developer without a bloody great stadium in the middle of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 With regard to the Eardley fee, there's been plenty of suggestion and rumour about the fee and how TTA have let him and others go for next to nothing. But has anyone said why they've done that? If they have gone for less than market value then why is that? Something sinister, or that they're just dumb? Or maybe they've just accepted the highest bid? I doubt the tribunal system is as simple as finding the middle ground between the 2 club's valuations as if that was the case then every transfer would go that way - "Now then Blackpool, what's your valuation? 50k? Ok. Latics? 10million? Ok, We'll call it 5 million then. NEXT!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Simply put mate, the land is worth more to TTA and a potential developer without a bloody great stadium in the middle of it. Cant see how we cant develop around BP as was previously planned to fund one new stand and whatever facilities with an eye to improving facilities around the ground overall. This "failsworth or bust" just seems too much like scaremongering to me so questions arn't asked. Edited August 27, 2009 by cmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Cant see how we cant develop around BP as was previously planned to fund one new stand and whatever facilities with an eye to improving facilities around the ground overall. This "failsworth or bust" just seems too much like scaremongering to me so questions arn't asked. It's really not that hard, they were struggling to get any developers interested in the site with a football stadium stuck in the middle of it, take that football stadium away and it becomes a much more saleable site, even in this current climate. As i've said before, couldn't care less if TTA maker a profit on the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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