wozz_oafc Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 What I dont get is people saying there is gonna be a mass exodus of our fans going off to watch City, dont more Oldhamers support City already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 Lions Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 There shouldn't be any kind of exodus, from what I see of the fixtures whenever we're at home, City are away or not playing that day and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Careful FMS, that's absolutely bang on. The Corp will be after you with his drum. Nonsense. FMS has posted one of the best fairy tales I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 What I dont get is people saying there is gonna be a mass exodus of our fans going off to watch City, dont more Oldhamers support City already? Exactly, I can't see how we could be hurt anymore than we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Forget the bulk of Citeh/United fans already living in the area. Times change and people move in and out of boroughs. In 10 or 15 years time Failsworth could be a much stronger hotbed of our fanbase than it is now. Failsworth underwent a change of character that will takes decades to work itself out yet during the 1960s and '70s. This was when large numbers of people from inner-city Manchester, more affluent after the post-WW2 economic boom etc, moved up to Failsworth. This is what gave the area its Mancunian flavour. Almost all of these people come from generations of United and City fans. They will not suddenly switch allegiances to a club which seems content to, at best, tread water in the third division just because they've moved to their doorstep. Meanwhile, do we have any evidence of a coming influx of people into Failsworth from other parts of the Oldham borough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Nonsense. FMS has posted one of the best fairy tales I've ever read. Cheers. You'd just hate for it to actually turn out like that wouldn't you? Is it completely unplausable to you that we'd be able to attract investment with a new stadium and a clean slate? Perrenial lower league club without it, aye. But with it... Edited September 4, 2009 by Frankly Mr Shankly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I wonder if Cardiff / Leicester / Sunderland / Wigan etc. fans all said the same as you......... They will have been too enthused by being supporters of clubs with ambition, as opposed to a club that's basically given up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Cheers. You'd just hate for it to actually turn out like that wouldn't you? Is it completely unplausable to you that we'd not be able to attract investment with a new stadium and a clean slate? Perrenial lower league club without it, aye. But with it... I'd love it to turn out like you say. But all the signs say that it won't. In fact, I'd love it so much that I'll say that (if the Failsworth project goes according to how we're being told it will) if your scenario has come about in, say, five or six years time, I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice. You can do the same for me if I'm right. Deal? Other happy clappers have backed out of a similar challenge recently, which makes me doubt if they actually believe their fatuous quackings. If you agree, perhaps a moderator could put it up on the board as a sticky (or whatever you call 'em.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepy Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 What grants? Didn't Blitz say in the LP interview yesterday that the BP land would be sold off piecemeal to fund the stadium. You're argument fails to recognise that there's gonna be overlap - not a case of new stadium built, old stadium (and land) sold. The land sales at BP will be taking place from now right up until there's nothing but the stadium there (pretty much), by which time we'll be ready for 'the move over'. I wonder if Cardiff / Leicester / Sunderland / Wigan etc. fans all said the same as you......... The fans of the above clubs where happy with the size of stadium they were getting, so probably didnt question it no they knew that the club they where supporting where building a stadium fit for there ambitions, unlike us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Regarding the reasons behind the move, maybe a little more sinister. As soon as Corney spouted the "We'll not be around forever" rhetoric the writing's on the wall. They've been here too long, wasted too much money on trying to get BP off the ground and want out. An apathetic public, an untrusting council and probably on their part some bad or lack of marketing has left us where we stand. But with debts wiped clean, a new stadium and to an extent, a self-sufficiant football team is an attractive proposition to an investor and it's where our hopes of future success lie. The relatively low proposed stadium capacity may be on the face of it unambitious, but to me it's a statement that the current owners want away and are willing to pay the bare minimum and capitalise on the land sale at BP. Cards on the table, this is how it lies. Isn't it about time we laid the notion of 'an apathetic Oldham public' to rest? There are few other clubs of around our size who, when they've been down where we've languished for so long, have not seen crowds dip to a similar level. This applies to all of those Lancashire neighbours of ours (and I don't include the Manchester clubs) that so many posters on here seem to be in awe of. The simple fact is that the club hasn't done enough to win backed lapsed supporters and create new ones. The false dawns don't really help. In fact, they are soul destroying for many former (and existing) supporters and make the club look like a bit of a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I'd love it to turn out like you say. But all the signs say that it won't. In fact, I'd love it so much that I'll say that (if the Failsworth project goes according to how we're being told it will) if your scenario has come about in, say, five or six years time, I'll donate £100 to a charity of your choice. You can do the same for me if I'm right. I'd agree to that, but I'm sure you'll try and come up with something so you wouldn't have to pay up. What is it? Five, or six years? What are the quantifiers? That we have new investment only? Or that our attendances have risen? Or as a club we're financially sound and on the rise? What I'm saying is that's all a bit woolly. You're asking for something definitive, yet you can't even state definitively what the terms of your charity bet is. Let's be honest, the way I see it is subject to the club doing the correct marketing and push when we do move. If they get that bit right then there's no reason for the Failsworth move not to have a happy conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I'd agree to that, but I'm sure you'll try and come up with something so you wouldn't have to pay up. What is it? Five, or six years? What are the quantifiers? That we have new investment only? Or that our attendances have risen? Or as a club we're financially sound and on the rise? What I'm saying is that's all a bit woolly. You're asking for something definitive, yet you can't even state definitively what the terms of your charity bet is. Let's be honest, the way I see it is subject to the club doing the correct marketing and push when we do move. If they get that bit right then there's no reason for the Failsworth move not to have a happy conclusion. Here's the substance of your above post: "But with debts wiped clean, a new stadium and to an extent, a self-sufficiant football team is an attractive proposition to an investor and it's where our hopes of future success lie. The relatively low proposed stadium capacity may be on the face of it unambitious, but to me it's a statement that the current owners want away and are willing to pay the bare minimum and capitalise on the land sale at BP. Cards on the table, this is how it lies. But give me a fresh start, new stadium and a debtless club and I'm more than optimistic that new investment will be sought." If you make from this kind of optimism a prediction of where you think we're likely to be in five years time, that can be the substance of the 'bet.' Edit to add: it only applies as long as we are talking about the 12000 capacity stadium in Failsworth. Any departure from that changes the nature of the argument. Edited September 4, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 What I dont get is people saying there is gonna be a mass exodus of our fans going off to watch City, dont more Oldhamers support City already? I don't think anyone is saying there is going to be an exodus of any kind. Committed Latics fans would no more stab themselves in the leg with a rusty fork thta go and watch that pile of steaming donkey:censored: at the Council House. Like it or not, the stayaways are pretty much gome now. A small % may return as FMS points out, to experience the 'better' matchday environment. What I'm more concerned about is the kids in the playground of schools around our new stadium. Are they gonna pick Latics or megamillions City and Utd. And all this guff about the new site being 'within the borough'. Give me a break. It's Manchester, regardless of what the administrative boundaries say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I don't think anyone is saying there is going to be an exodus of any kind. Committed Latics fans would no more stab themselves in the leg with a rusty fork thta go and watch that pile of steaming donkey:censored: at the Council House. Like it or not, the stayaways are pretty much gome now. A small % may return as FMS points out, to experience the 'better' matchday environment. What I'm more concerned about is the kids in the playground of schools around our new stadium. Are they gonna pick Latics or megamillions City and Utd. And all this guff about the new site being 'within the borough'. Give me a break. It's Manchester, regardless of what the administrative boundaries say. I would expect the majority of kids in and around BP to pick City and United already, if the club moved further into Oldham I would expect this to sadly be the same. I grew up much futher away from Manchester than Oldham about 30 miles, the majority of kids again grow up supporting Man United around there too. This is despite Chester, Liverpool, Tranmere and Everton all being closer. Looks like we will have to agree to disagree. I have often wondered if many people who live in Oldham see themselves as part of Manchester anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 Lions Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I don't think anyone is saying there is going to be an exodus of any kind. Committed Latics fans would no more stab themselves in the leg with a rusty fork thta go and watch that pile of steaming donkey:censored: at the Council House. If the Prem was still like it was in it's infancy, then I wouldn't be adverse to going to an odd game. I refuse to watch it as it is now. And all this guff about the new site being 'within the borough'. Give me a break. It's Manchester, regardless of what the administrative boundaries say. I think thats more to pander to the people fretting about having a Manc postcode. If we want to be really pedantic about this, Oldham is part of Greater Manchester, not Lancashire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 And all this guff about the new site being 'within the borough'. Give me a break. It's Manchester, regardless of what the administrative boundaries say. This sums it up for me. That's all I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I don't think anyone is saying there is going to be an exodus of any kind. Committed Latics fans would no more stab themselves in the leg with a rusty fork thta go and watch that pile of steaming donkey:censored: at the Council House. Like it or not, the stayaways are pretty much gome now. A small % may return as FMS points out, to experience the 'better' matchday environment. What I'm more concerned about is the kids in the playground of schools around our new stadium. Are they gonna pick Latics or megamillions City and Utd. And all this guff about the new site being 'within the borough'. Give me a break. It's Manchester, regardless of what the administrative boundaries say. Except its not at all in Manchester, it's either part of Oldham or its Failsworth on it's own. Never has been Manchester. As for the Kids in the playground, there is a bigger chance that they will support Oldham if they are based nearer the club and we cannot really survive on are current support. Edited September 4, 2009 by jimsleftfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 If the Prem was still like it was in it's infancy, then I wouldn't be adverse to going to an odd game. I refuse to watch it as it is now. I think thats more to pander to the people fretting about having a Manc postcode. If we want to be really pedantic about this, Oldham is part of Greater Manchester, not Lancashire. We're actually part of both the Ceremonial County of Greater Manchester and Historic County of Lancashire if we are being pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Except its not at all in Manchester, it's either part of Oldham or its Failsworth on it's own. Never has been Manchester. As for the Kids in the playground, there is a bigger chance that they will support Oldham if they are based nearer the club and we cannot really survive on are current support. It's true that Failsworth has never been in Manchester. But for reasons it seems I keep having to explain (I do so again only in one of my earlier posts today), possibly a majority of Failsworth residents have their origins in inner-city Manchester, regard themselves as Mancunians, and support one or the other of the Manchester clubs. A small number of people from Failsworth have always supported Latics. There is no reason on earth to imagine that this will increase just because the club moves its base into the area, especially when it has such low ambitions-which will, of course, translate into a poor standard of football, played by journeymen, kids not good enough to be snapped up by bigger clubs and the usual endless parade of loanees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 A small number of people from Failsworth Oldham have always supported Latics. There is no reason on earth to imagine that this will increase just because the club moves keeps its base into the area, especially when it has such low ambitions-which will, of course, translate into a poor standard of football, played by journeymen, kids not good enough to be snapped up by bigger clubs and the usual endless parade of loanees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legoboy Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) I like your optimism but I think you are looking at it through rose coloured spectacles. If you actually think that - "But with debts wiped clean, a new stadium and to an extent, a self-sufficiant football team is an attractive proposition to an investor and it's where our hopes of future success lie." then you are in for a big shock. Try this version for a reality check:- When we move to our new state-of-the-art tin shed with the massive capacity to suit our position/ambition it will all be too evident. I think that the three amigos have realised that to turn this club round is going to cost them more money than they actually have. Consequently the move to Manchester is their "get out" clause. They are going to build this new ground using all the grants and incentives they can get, using borrowed money to fund the rest. Once it is built and in our name we take on all the debt and stumble along between the third and fourth division with the occasional decent cup run (Ha Ha Ha) playing in front of three or four thousand (as everyone is not going to go and watch us play in Manchester) the three amigos sell Boundary park, which is already in their name, pocket the money and walk away. This is a move that will possibly kill our club. The new ground location is not widely accepted by the faithfull, the capacity is being questioned, and the apparent lack of facilities is not going to generate anywhere near enough revenue to cover the losses the club will make. It fills me with fear and sends me into a deep depression thinking about it. I really do hope you are right but, honestly I can't see it. I think it will end similarly to this but with BP sold for housing and us moving in with Rochdale for a few seasons until the Failsworth deal finally falls through and then we become homeless. Edited September 5, 2009 by Legoboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think it will end similarly to this but with BP sold for housing and us moving in with Rochdale for a few seasons until the Failsworth deal finally falls through and then we become homeless. Hard to stomach such a possibility, but just as the club's record at bouncing back after relegation is abysmal, so, too, is that of getting new stadiums off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Isn't it about time we laid the notion of 'an apathetic Oldham public' to rest The simple fact is that the club hasn't done enough to win backed lapsed supporters and create new ones. The false dawns don't really help. In fact, they are soul destroying for many former (and existing) supporters and make the club look like a bit of a joke. Yes, but when we move to Failsworth we are going to 'market' the club to the people there. And it will happen, because 'Alan' said so at the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Yes, but when we move to Failsworth we are going to 'market' the club to the people there. And it will happen, because 'Alan' said so at the forum. That's all right then. Phew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Apologies if this question has already been answered but have we had any feedback as to why the british gas site at higginshaw was never a contender? Much better option imo than failsworth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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