Yard Dog Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Corp Jones is once slight chance you could possibly contribute to a topic without having to raise the subject of the demise and inevitability of the destruction of OAFC? Any chance at all? I'm afraid there isn't. We've tried appealing to his better nature, but he has refused and condemned us to an OWTB life of extreme boredom. I don't know what he gets out of coming on this board.... I'm gonna have to make him the first person I've put on Ignore....I can't take it anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Gotta agree with yard dog, its get seriously repetitive, your turning a possibly valid point into useless drivel! seriously mate get a grip The title of the thread is relegation. If somebody with the username 'oldhamathleticmad' can't see what this would mean for the club, then there really is no hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'm afraid there isn't. We've tried appealing to his better nature, but he has refused and condemned us to an OWTB life of extreme boredom. I don't know what he gets out of coming on this board.... I'm gonna have to make him the first person I've put on Ignore....I can't take it anymore I won't miss you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 For some reason, when Penney came in I automatically trusted him to keep us in the top 10. The season's young, but if you look who's down the bottom with us they're sides most people here would have predicted to be down there come the end of the season. It doesn't help that all the big sides - bar Norwich - have flown outta the traps. Top 6 looks desperately tricky. Relegation, we're better than about 10 of the other sides in the division, regardless of the budget, which would mean Penney has dropped an absolutely massive clanger if he does manage to sink us. As it is, I don't think we'll go down, but I'm not looking too far ahead, simply because it doesn't look bright. Getting rid of this home hoodoo is our main priority right now because it's having such a negative effect on the players, and is driving fans away in their droves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) As everybody on here will know, you're far from the only one to say that. But what I don't think people have realised is that there is no such thing as 'a season of consolidation.' The team DP has the financial means to assemble indicates that the towel has already been thrown in as far as promotion is concerned. The kind of inconsistency you describe (or worse) will only see crowds drop further. The result of this will be further cuts in the playing budget. After that it's either the new stadium in Failsworth or a ground share at Rochdale, Gigg Lane or somewhere (possibly somewhere worse still)-and, inevitably, yet further cuts as income continues to fall (even if there are some non-football facilities the club can make money from at Failsworth-and we have no evidence of this as yet-they may well be offset by the falling matchday income due to the lack of ambition symbolised by a small stadium, and the refusal of some fans to watch 'a Manchester-based club', keeping people away.) And then what? We had 'seasons of consolidation' when Ritchie was in charge. They are the road to nowhere. I haven't titled it a season of consolidation though. But also, I don't know what TTA plan to offer as a budget next season. Hopefully one to build on what DP has started this season. But my current feeling is that TTA's heart isnt in the club anymore. Their apathy for OAFC commercially in recent times is a joke and their blatant land deal to recoup their losses, as I see it now as going to Failsworth is utter madness IMO, has left me feeling quite flat and worried about our future. I'm not aligning myself with you CJ but recent TTA movements and displays (like Corneys at the Fans Forum last month) have caused me to question TTA's ability to take us forward. At present, I only see sideways (in this division) and downwards (to Failsworth which has a very real chance of being the end of us.) Concerned?...you bet! And yes, this will continue to affect attendances. I can see us hovering around 3000 for a midweek Tuesday night game this winter. People will use this as fuel further for Failsworth...when really, it isn't. It's just further indication of a lack of heart at the top filtering down through to the bottom. It's working here...and working too with a mate of mine who's put plenty of money into OAFC through his business only to be :censored: on time and time again. End game coming up! Edited September 16, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) I haven't titled it a season of consolidation though. But also, I don't know what TTA plan to offer as a budget next season. Hopefully one to build on what DP has started this season. But my current feeling is that TTA's heart isnt in the club anymore. Their apathy for OAFC commercially in recent times is a joke and their blatant land deal to recoup their losses, as I see it now as going to Failsworth is utter madness IMO, has left me feeling quite flat and worried about our future. I'm not aligning myself with you CJ but recent TTA movements and displays (like Corneys at the Fans Forum last month) have caused me to question TTA's ability to take us forward. At present, I only see sideways (in this division) and downwards (to Failsworth which has a very real chance of being the end of us.) Concerned?...you bet! And yes, this will continue to affect attendances. I can see us hovering around 3000 for a midweek Tuesday night game this winter. People will use this as fuel further for Failsworth...when really, it isn't. It's just further indication of a lack of heart at the top filtering down through to the bottom. It's working here...and working too with a mate of mine who's put plenty of money into OAFC through his business only to be :censored: on time and time again. End game coming up! I wasn't meaning to imply that you did call it a season of consolidation. It is, though, what others christen the type of season you envisage for this time around. If we are hovering around the bottom half of the table, fighting relegation, or if the worst actually comes about, I can't see anything happening other than crowds falling further. And what else could this possibly mean other than a further reduced budget for next season? That's why I don't think some people at BP would see relegation as a disaster. There we'd be, nicely ensconsed in a fourth division berth on a fourth division budget. What could look nicer at such a low point than a compact, shiny stadium and an accompanying illusion of A Fresh Start? Edited September 16, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 There is no plus point in relegation for Oldham, none. We don't necessarily have the players or budget to bounce straight back up and that spells trouble, as we'll be in the same predicament (in terms of attendances, budget) but we'll be a division lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 There is no plus point in relegation for Oldham, none. We don't necessarily have the players or budget to bounce straight back up and that spells trouble, as we'll be in the same predicament (in terms of attendances, budget) but we'll be a division lower. But think of the great derbies with Rochdale and Bury. We have no God given right to stay in any particular division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 As your post is the next one after my own...I'll take it that you''ve conveniently ignored about the 23 games last season making up 2009 which I've pointed out... 23 games...24pts...plenty of goals scored...SAME F***ING PROBLEM!!! Infact...in those 23 games last season we scored in 16 of them!!! And won just 5 of those 23 games....it's almost unbelievable to the point of laughing in disbelief that people want to blame elsewhere on the pitch over an already existing problem....all they're pointing out really is that with the fact our midfield and forward line aint working aswell as last seasons major problem.....we're in serious :censored:!!! I think you will find we have problems in every department of the field, from goalkeeping mistakes, defensive errors, under performing and none creative midfield and strikers who are not creating or scoring any goals. You used to just constantly blame Gregan for every mistake or bad result, while defending Hazell to the skies. You have now hastily back tracked on the Hazell issue and now blame Hazell and Gregan for every goal conceded or bad result. Look at the bigger picture, it's a team problem, we can't score a goal and we can't win a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think you will find we have problems in every department of the field, from goalkeeping mistakes, defensive errors, under performing and none creative midfield and strikers who are not creating or scoring any goals. You used to just constantly blame Gregan for every mistake or bad result, while defending Hazell to the skies. You have now hastily back tracked on the Hazell issue and now blame Hazell and Gregan for every goal conceded or bad result. Look at the bigger picture, it's a team problem, we can't score a goal and we can't win a game. well actually he used to defend gregan to the skies too, then he saw the light. his 'backtracking' on hazell says to me that he has the ability to constantly revise his opinions on things through weighing up all available evidence. this is clearly a charactaristic you do not posess. just because your milk was fresh last month, doesnt mean it is fresh this month. things change, you need to put aside your personal feelings when you are evaluating. i understand your love is deeply engrained, but theres a saying about hearts ruling heads and quite a few of you suffer from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Do people not see our form since Jan 1st? And the defence in place since then??? How f***ing blind can people be??? At least I'm happy in the knowledge that DP is new to us and hasn't seen what we have ALL 2009. We have and yet still people want to talk about the front line, using it in defence for our defence, when the front line has not worked in 7 games...but dumb and dumber hasn't worked in the past 30 games (and beyond!) I used to think you were better than this BB80. Hometownclub has somewhat stolen my thunder but he's right. It's cliche but defending starts from the front and attacking starts from the back, whilst attack is the best form of defence. We concede as a team and we score as a team.....there are so many variables contributing to how many goals a team concedes. I do feel, however, that if Dumber (Hazell) and Dumbest (Brill) were replaced, then 'Dumb' could crack on with winning every MOTM poll, rather than just most of them. P.S Don't you just love it when he steams out of the defence and heads away a dangerous ball in, regardless of where the subsequent 50/50 ball lands. GREGAN'S!!! If only we had two of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) well actually he used to defend gregan to the skies too, No he didn't, find me the evidence of this. then he saw the light. No he didn't. his 'backtracking' on hazell says to me that he has the ability to constantly revise his opinions on things through weighing up all available evidence. All it means he got it wrong. this is clearly a charactaristic you do not posess. Touche, the same could be and has been on many occasions said about yourself.just because your milk was fresh last month, doesnt mean it is fresh this month. It depends to an extent on whether you buy longlife milk or not (that UHT stuff keeps for ages). things change, you need to put aside your personal feelings The same is said by me of you. when you are evaluating. i understand your love is deeply engrained, your hatred is also very deeply ingrained. but theres a saying about hearts ruling heads and quite a few of you suffer from this. You suffer from it yourself in a very big way, never being able to see what is happening before your eyes such is your deeply ingrained hatred and loathing. Edited September 16, 2009 by Hometownclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 i know he did because when i first mooted that gregan wasnt the man he was, bb80 was in there with yourself refusing to accept it. what do you want bb80 to say? do you want him to actually say 'i was wrong about hazell'? for me, changing his opinion, along with an acknowldgement of it is enough. ive said many times, i loved gregan when he was on loan. but his lack of effort once his deal was sealed, turned it to hate. i acknowledge when he plays well, and hes done that in half the games this season, and the big games last season. its just not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 If only we had two of him. You're just being silly now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 ...we'll actually go down? This is a serious question. a bad start doesnt mean relegation. this time last season when we were top of the league and everyone was saying we'd get promotion. i would be very very surprised if we finished 18th or below and i think mid-table/top ten is where this team has the potential to go. You can only make judgement on current form not on if's,but's and maybe's.....the fact is we have a couple of injuries to key players....said key players have not looked themselves so far this season so to state that their return will spark good results is totally wishful thinking IMO. My personal opinion is that (from performances i have seen so far) we far look more likely of getting relegated than of getting promoted this season...I'm finding it difficult to find any positives....we aren't scoring.....we are conceding silly goals....players appear to be showing less fight week after week....we are already looking for excuses to explain our poor form. If i hear that the players need more time to gel one more time im gonna pop. Thats football in this era....we are gonna be using the excuse every couple of years as very few players stay for longer than 2 seasons at any one club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 My personal opinion is that (from performances i have seen so far) we far look more likely of getting relegated than of getting promoted this season...I'm finding it difficult to find any positives....we aren't scoring.....we are conceding silly goals....players appear to be showing less fight week after week....we are already looking for excuses to explain our poor form. If i hear that the players need more time to gel one more time im gonna pop. Thats football in this era....we are gonna be using the excuse every couple of years as very few players stay for longer than 2 seasons at any one club. Aye, let's not the truth spoil a good point, eh? I'm struggling to work out how the bit in bold matches up against Paul Trollope's post match comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) I think you will find we have problems in every department of the field, from goalkeeping mistakes, defensive errors, under performing and none creative midfield and strikers who are not creating or scoring any goals. You used to just constantly blame Gregan for every mistake or bad result, while defending Hazell to the skies. You have now hastily back tracked on the Hazell issue and now blame Hazell and Gregan for every goal conceded or bad result. Look at the bigger picture, it's a team problem, we can't score a goal and we can't win a game. I think you'll find you're wrong actually. Yes, I have backed Hazell but I've still said that the back 2 doesn't work. When both players haven't been dropping clangers it still hasn't worked. Just that up till March Hazell deserved all the backing he got from me...ya know...being player of the season and all that! Sadly since March however, his alarming decline has led me to decide both need replacing. One more than the other however! On which one, we'll disagree...I know for a fact Hazell would be far better without Gregan than with and the stats proved so when he played with Stam. Hey...if I'd been dead against Hazell as much as Gregan from the start...you'd still be singing the same song simply coz you can't stand Gregan being highlighted as a severe weakness. So much so, you ignored Jan - Mays stats and pathetically use our conversion rate this season which actually only adds to the misery! Edited September 16, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 You know what I've found? However many times he changes his opinion and rants at us to try and convince us it's FACT, I can only find one constant in BB80's posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 You know what I've found? However many times he changes his opinion and rants at us to try and convince us it's FACT, I can only find one constant in BB80's posts. Very good... So should I still be saying Hazell is the bees-knees since his decline in form? At this rate, you'll be asking me to say Andy Goram should never have been let go the 2nd time here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think you'll find you're wrong actually. Yes, I have backed Hazell but I've still said that the back 2 doesn't work. When both players haven't been dropping clangers it still hasn't worked. Just that up till March Hazell deserved all the backing he got from me...ya know...being player of the season and all that! Sadly since March however, his alarming decline has led me to decide both need replacing. One more than the other however! On which one, we'll disagree...I know for a fact Hazell would be far better without Gregan than with and the stats proved so when he played with Stam. Hey...if I'd been dead against Hazell as much as Gregan from the start...you'd still be singing the same song simply coz you can't stand Gregan being highlighted as a severe weakness. So much so, you ignored Jan - Mays stats and pathetically use our conversion rate this season which actually only adds to the misery! Where are these mythical stats? I never saw anything that remotely convinced me that a Hazell, Stam combination was better than any combination that contained Gregan. Stam can't even get a game at Yeovil now (Tyrrell Forbes is keeping him out enough said). With Hazell and Stam you lose the aerial strength you get with Gregan, Hazell showed on Saturday his weakness in the air or he would have dealt with the long ball played for the goal as Gregan would have, in letting it bounce and allowing Williams a clear run in behind him he put us in a very dangerous position which led to the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 # Where are these mythical stats? I never saw anything that remotely convinced me that a Hazell, Stam combination was better than any combination that contained Gregan. Stam can't even get a game at Yeovil now (Tyrrell Forbes is keeping him out enough said). With Hazell and Stam you lose the aerial strength you get with Gregan, Hazell showed on Saturday his weakness in the air or he would have dealt with the long ball played for the goal as Gregan would have, in letting it bounce and allowing Williams a clear run in behind him he put us in a very dangerous position which led to the goal. Couldn't give a toss what Stam can and can't do at Yeovil. And don't be turning this into a Stam debate when it isn't...it's a current back 2 debate and how it failed also last year and was better at times when Hazell and Stam played together... As for supposed mythical facts... 27-09-2008 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Huddersfield 0 15-11-2008 Football League One Northampton 0-1 Oldham 0 22-11-2008 Football League One Southend 1-2 Oldham 0 25-11-2008 Football League One Oldham 3-2 Walsall 0 06-12-2008 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Brighton 0 13-12-2008 Football League One Peterborough 2-2 Oldham 0 20-12-2008 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Leyton Orient 0 26-12-2008 Football League One Crewe 0-3 Oldham 0 21-03-2009 Football League One Oldham 0-2 Tranmere 0 28-03-2009 Football League One Leyton Orient 2-1 Oldham 0 10-04-2009 Football League One Carlisle 1-1 Oldham 0 13-04-2009 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Crewe 0 18-04-2009 Football League One Brighton 3-1 Oldham 0 Stams league games last season...the 3 times we lost it wasn't a Stam-Hazell partnership but a Gregan+1 other...usually Stam with Hazell at RB. I'm at work now, but I can look into when Hazell-Stam played together at the back if you like (from that list of games above) but I know they didn't lose a game when together as a CB pairing! Anyhow...you're clearly not interested in facts anyway, as you still refuse to address the fact we were scoring goals from Jan-May 09 but still only picked up 24 points from 23 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 # Couldn't give a toss what Stam can and can't do at Yeovil. And don't be turning this into a Stam debate when it isn't...it's a current back 2 debate and how it failed also last year and was better at times when Hazell and Stam played together... As for supposed mythical facts... 27-09-2008 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Huddersfield 0 15-11-2008 Football League One Northampton 0-1 Oldham 0 22-11-2008 Football League One Southend 1-2 Oldham 0 25-11-2008 Football League One Oldham 3-2 Walsall 0 06-12-2008 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Brighton 0 13-12-2008 Football League One Peterborough 2-2 Oldham 0 20-12-2008 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Leyton Orient 0 26-12-2008 Football League One Crewe 0-3 Oldham 0 21-03-2009 Football League One Oldham 0-2 Tranmere 0 28-03-2009 Football League One Leyton Orient 2-1 Oldham 0 10-04-2009 Football League One Carlisle 1-1 Oldham 0 13-04-2009 Football League One Oldham 1-1 Crewe 0 18-04-2009 Football League One Brighton 3-1 Oldham 0 Stams league games last season...the 3 times we lost it wasn't a Stam-Hazell partnership but a Gregan+1 other...usually Stam with Hazell at RB. I'm at work now, but I can look into when Hazell-Stam played together at the back if you like (from that list of games above) but I know they didn't lose a game when together as a CB pairing! Anyhow...you're clearly not interested in facts anyway, as you still refuse to address the fact we were scoring goals from Jan-May 09 but still only picked up 24 points from 23 games. We weren't scoring that many goals from Jan-May as we only recored 5 victories in that whole 5 month period, we scored 24 goals in 23 games, thats one goal per game. There are also many many more variables in those stats than just whether Gregan played and who partnered him in the centre of defence. You want to blame Gregan for the entire problems that we currently have and all the problems we have had since January while extolling the virtues of Stam, yet we saw fit to let Stam go. The bottom line is Stam was so good he is no longer at the club and Hazell's confidence is so low he would not be playing if we had any reasonable alternative to him at centre half, if we do manage to get a centre half in on loan see who Penney drops, it wont be Gregan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) You want to blame Gregan for the entire problems that we currently have and all the problems we have had since January while extolling the virtues of Stam, yet we saw fit to let Stam go. The bottom line is Stam was so good he is no longer at the club and Hazell's confidence is so low he would not be playing if we had any reasonable alternative to him at centre half, if we do manage to get a centre half in on loan see who Penney drops, it wont be Gregan. I get 25 goals in 23 games...with a good enough defence, a goal a game is enough to win a game. More than the ratio we're providing now. I am not discounting your point about our ability to score...it just highlights the defensive problem even further. We've gone from 1-1's to 1-0's or worse... As for the line I've highlighted...you're really not keeping up...if I say dumb and dumber (which has clearly got your back up) has Gregan all of a sudden become 2 people? If you track back to last season, you'll see that I highlighted Gregan, Jones being a LW not a LB and Eardley's form was the original problems...while Hazell was the only one performing. Two of those have gone. The only one performing is now struggling badly...and Gregan is Gregan (and not the entire problem, but a big part)...who sometimes has blinding games when on TV or at Leeds (ie. the big games) but more regularly displays that he is a one trick pony. Head it son...go on...head it! Edited September 16, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Can we take this beyond Gregan and Hazell? Because i'm sure if i was paying somebody £££'s a week and they weren't/didn't perform consistently - I'm bloody sure that I would do something about it - Has this been done? NO! Whether or not Gregan and Hazell and even Brill had been in the best form of their careers, they would have, at some point this season, hit a 'rough patch' - Back up would be needed. Having no competition or back up would surely bring their 'rough patch' sooner because of no competition.This is the situation, certainly Hazell at the minute, seems to find himself in. Winning games will breed confidence, we aren't winning and neither is his/their confidence, yet we have nobody to replace them with. DP come on! As for the blame for our bad start being portioned to the back 5 - Sorry not having that! Although not seen all of the games, the ones i've seen and read about have all stated clear chances that we have had to go in front, which creates a different game - we aren't taking those chances at the minute, which increases pressure on the side as a whole. Win as a team - Lose as a team, all areas to improve please and with one or two key players coming back from injuries, let's hope the side settle down and confidence reappears - but competition for keeper, centre half and strikers wouldn't go a miss!! Edited September 16, 2009 by futchers briefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I get 25 goals in 23 games...with a good enough defence, a goal a game is enough to win a game. More than the ratio we're providing now. I am not discounting your point about our ability to score...it just highlights the defensive problem even further. We've gone from 1-1's to 1-0's or worse... As for the line I've highlighted...you're really not keeping up...if I say dumb and dumber (which has clearly got your back up) has Gregan all of a sudden become 2 people? If you track back to last season, you'll see that I highlighted Gregan, Jones being a LW not a LB and Eardley's form was the original problems...while Hazell was the only one performing. Two of those have gone. The only one performing is now struggling badly...and Gregan is Gregan (and not the entire problem, but a big part)...who sometimes has blinding games when on TV or at Leeds (ie. the big games) but more regularly displays that he is a one trick pony. Head it son...go on...head it! A goal a game is only good enough to win a game if you keep a clean sheet, so with that scoring record we would have to keep a clean sheet every game to win it. Far better teams than us fail to keep a clean sheet every week. Saying dumb and dumber doesn't get my back up I just think its a meaningless throw away line that doesn't make any sense, unless of course you mean Hazell and Brill. I just consider the whole thing to be a debate, we disagree and always will, I can see you're a man whose opinion cannot be changed (except for on Hazell of course). I notice you didn't comment on my line about Hazell being dropped the first chance that Penney gets, I assume that means you agree with me on that point then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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