oafc0000 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) In all fairness we probably will be coming out of the recession at the end of the year. All that means though is that we will be out of negative growth. The problem then however is growth will remain low, the cost cutting will go on and jobs continue to go. ...and then growth will probably turn again and we will double dip... Very likely... 2010 is going to be rough as well I would imagine... 2011 I am more hopeful about... Edited September 25, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 ...and then growth will probably turn again and we will double dip... Why do you think that will happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Why do you think that will happen? A LOT of public sector jobs are still to go... More jobs to go in private sector as well... This can only result in less spending... A double dip remains a likely possibility... I expect us to push out of negative growth (recession) just on the fact that VAT is going back up to 19.5% in Jan. A lot of people will be getting those big purchases in before the rise. Watch everyone report a "healthy" Christmas period. Then in 2009 as the job loses kick another drop is likely. Also, how will the markets react from the election ? Going to be a big factor.. Edited September 25, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 How silly of me...there i was sitting in awe, looking at the how the possible sad demise of a local semi-pro football club had brought 7 pages of comment and feeling, I shouldn't have been so foolish as to think that this thread could possibly have been hijacked into a financial, political, intelligence battle of such academically minded people. Any more news on the football club......apart from they have no game tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Any more news on the football club......apart from they have no game tomorrow. Latest from the club: http://www.hydeunited.com/league/News/board240909.html And forum: http://www.eyeonthetigers.co.uk/ Basically, they need to find £35k over the weekend to go back to the High Court next week with a decent case for appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Latest from the club: http://www.hydeunited.com/league/News/board240909.html And forum: http://www.eyeonthetigers.co.uk/ Basically, they need to find £35k over the weekend to go back to the High Court next week with a decent case for appeal. They have a meeting tomorrow and have suggested 350 supporters donate £100 each to cover the shortfall. Accrington Stanley need to raise £308k by Oct 28th which might be a taller order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Latest from the club: http://www.hydeunited.com/league/News/board240909.html And forum: http://www.eyeonthetigers.co.uk/ Basically, they need to find £35k over the weekend to go back to the High Court next week with a decent case for appeal. Cheers.. As for the situation with accrington as well, not good signs and the writing is very much on the wall for many 'smaller clubs' it seems - some very sad times ahead for many passionate, local fans up and down the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 So of those not making the trek to Sarfend tomorrow, who's up for a bus ride to Hyde to donate to the cause whilst having a good time, by way of putting a couple of hundred quid behind the bar at the Tigers Social Club? :drinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 except when we need to clear up some points about organisational goals that is. Anyway - back to the debate. What organisational goals might these be? And what's been cleared up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 If Gray is a conservative this week he sure as hell won't be next one. He was the high priest of the communitarian school of political thought when I was actively studying. Anyway, I support, "capitalism," only in it's pure usage as in people investing money to make a profit, not the more popular use that covers any society with businesses allowed to make a profit regardless of how much the government is involved So like, say, the Socialist Workers' party supports the kind of socialsim that has never existed and probably never will exist, you support the kind of capitalism that doesn't exist and never will? That's the problem with utopian dogma. It leaves you chasing shadows. Last time I heard Gray describe himself he said he was a liberal conservative. It's a bit of a myth that there's no logical thread to his political evolution anyway. But all that is beside the point. The Delusions of Global Capitalism exposes the myths and follies of the neo-liberal economic dogma, as well as the political disasters it's led to-and is all the more poweful for being written by somebody who helpoed to popularise those myths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 So like, say, the Socialist Workers' party supports the kind of socialsim that has never existed and probably never will exist, you support the kind of capitalism that doesn't exist and never will? That's the problem with utopian dogma. It leaves you chasing shadows. Last time I heard Gray describe himself he said he was a liberal conservative. It's a bit of a myth that there's no logical thread to his political evolution anyway. But all that is beside the point. The Delusions of Global Capitalism exposes the myths and follies of the neo-liberal economic dogma, as well as the political disasters it's led to-and is all the more poweful for being written by somebody who helpoed to popularise those myths. Every time I want to buy something, and it's possible for me to do so, that's because of the unplanned outcomes of the market process. That's why I can call for a pizza if I am hungry and have a fair chance of it arriving quicker than an ambulance would, even though if I was having a heart attack I would pay more for an ambulance than I would for a pizza. There never has been and never will be a pure market society, but it's quite possible to see why some things work and others don't. Unplanned markets create tacit information that leads desires to be met. Planned systems do not. Incidentally, you might want to consider apologising to the people whose jobs you consider not to be as good as the ones you think the Government should be creating for them. "McJobs," as you call them would not exist if they weren't serving the desires of the population and it's poor form to call people's jobs out in a culture where well over 3 million people choose not to work and the largest job creation scheme is that whereby the Government employs people to no purpose. Respect to someone who takes a, "McJob," only to be mocked by people who imagine that they should be mining coal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Cheers.. As for the situation with accrington as well, not good signs and the writing is very much on the wall for many 'smaller clubs' it seems - some very sad times ahead for many passionate, local fans up and down the country. On the subject of Accy I've had some meetings with the club over the past couple of weeks and my company will be commencing a large fundraising effort over the next 4 weeks to raise as much as possible for the club. I will post the details shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 On the subject of Accy I've had some meetings with the club over the past couple of weeks and my company will be commencing a large fundraising effort over the next 4 weeks to raise as much as possible for the club. I will post the details shortly. Well done......that's great for them, after working so hard to re-gain their football status it would be shameful really if they were allowed to drop out again, or worse still fold completely - good luck with your efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) Every time I want to buy something, and it's possible for me to do so, that's because of the unplanned outcomes of the market process. That's why I can call for a pizza if I am hungry and have a fair chance of it arriving quicker than an ambulance would, even though if I was having a heart attack I would pay more for an ambulance than I would for a pizza. There never has been and never will be a pure market society, but it's quite possible to see why some things work and others don't. Unplanned markets create tacit information that leads desires to be met. Planned systems do not. Incidentally, you might want to consider apologising to the people whose jobs you consider not to be as good as the ones you think the Government should be creating for them. "McJobs," as you call them would not exist if they weren't serving the desires of the population and it's poor form to call people's jobs out in a culture where well over 3 million people choose not to work and the largest job creation scheme is that whereby the Government employs people to no purpose. Respect to someone who takes a, "McJob," only to be mocked by people who imagine that they should be mining coal. This would all be very well if somebody had advocated in this thread a totally planned system. They haven't. Very few people do. Even the Bolsheviks didn't. The one they created arose out of the emergency conditions of wartime and eventually became institutionalised eben against the will of a part of the regime itself. Personally, like, I suspect, most people, I favour a mixed economy. I'm not mocking people in McJobs. The destruction of a massive part of Britain's industrial base by ultra-free market dogmatists is a tragedy. It means that there will be no genuine recovery from the current fiasco. There might be a semblance of one, on the basis of massive state intervention, but it will be based on the reinflation of all the bubbles that brought us to the brink of total economic collapse last year. Somewhere along the line they will definitely burst again. As for people choosing not to work, there might be plenty who do this-but you have no idea how many, and neither does anybody else. Do you approach everything on the basis of inflexible dogma? Edited September 28, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Do you approach everything on the basis of inflexible dogma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Inflexible dogma should not be confused with consistently arguing a certain point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Inflexible dogma should not be confused with consistently arguing a certain point of view. Consistently arguing a point of view shouldn’t be confused with messianic rambling of Apocalyptical doom either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Consistently arguing a point of view shouldn’t be confused with messianic rambling of Apocalyptical doom either When have I ever mentioned the Apocalypse? Or doom, for that matter? Drop the hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) When have I ever mentioned the Apocalypse? Or doom, for that matter? Drop the hyperbole. No, you have not mentioned doom. for the past 8 minnutes anyway. The other 2,000 posts are pretty doom laden, if you ask the majority of posters. Or boringly repetetive, depending on your point of view. Edited September 28, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) No, you have not mentioned doom. for the past 8 minnutes anyway. The other 2,000 posts are pretty doom laden, if you ask the majority of posters. Or boringly repetetive, depending on your point of view. I think some people need to look up the meaning of doom. What do you want me to do? Pretend I see a rosy future for the club when everything I see suggests otherwise? The optimists and the blind on here outnumber the pessimists by miles. Edited September 28, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie_Dugger Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I think some people need to look up the meaning of doom. What do you want me to do? Pretend I see a rosy future for the club when everything I see suggests otherwise? The optimists and the blind on here outnumber the pessimists by miles. He wants you to SHADDUP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 He wants you to SHADDUP. You don't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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