OldhamSheridan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 And why has this topic come up again. Due to the :censored: crowds we get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Due to the :censored: crowds we get? Which has less to do with fewer away fans than our dwindling home support-something that will not be arrested long-term should the club carry on along its present trajectory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Which has less to do with fewer away fans than our dwindling home support-something that will not be arrested long-term should the club carry on along its present trajectory. Well if we continue to be a third division mid-table side, I'd say our crowds will continue to be in the 4k mark. Let's face it, anyone that is really bored with this level has buggered off a long time ago. Personally, and for completely selfish reasons I wouldn't like a Northern League. I like the atmosphere and the collective drunkenness at away games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Talk of lower league football en masse going bust / part-time is nonsense though. The game in the lower levels is richer (financially) than ever. Admission prices have accelerated way ahead of inflation over the last 2 decades and new incomes from sponsorship and television have come in to the game that weren't there 20 years ago. Most clubs have chosen to spend this new wealth on player wages. The average lower league footballer earns a lot more now (in real terms) than they did in the early eighties. Yes, one or two clubs will go in to administration and occasionally one will disappear altogether. But the basic structure is healthy and I don't see the need to change it - especially as any savings/income generated from regionialisation would simply end up in the player's pockets. Is this why more clubs go into administration than ever before? You are right in saying that many lower division clubs try to perform a pathetic imitation of the PL and Championship clubs by gambling on success through paying high wages, but most of these clubs are living even further beyond their means than most clubs at the hihgher level. And it's a trap-one that we're stuck firmly in ourselves. It could only be rectified by a complete rebalancing of the financial structure of the entire game. That almost certainly will not come, and so clubs like ours are faced with the choice of continuing to run at a loss (unless aided by an ingenious plan such as that embodied in the defunct BP redevelopment project), or fall yet further behind. Furthermore, what you say depends on an assumption that everything in the wider economy and society remains as it is now (or was until recently). It won't. There will almost certainly be created a semblance of the supposed boom times that we've just lived through, but it will be more artificial than it was even then. Football, with all its stark financial unreality, is a particularly acute reflection of this artificiality. What we see unfolding before us (although masked by 'quantitative easing,' stimulus packages and low interest rates etc) is the end of the way of life the past few generations have grown to take for granted. As in wider society, in football the richest will look after themselves and let the rest go to the wall if necessary. Most people don't believe this but take a look at how things are in about twenty years' time and remember my prophecy. You are lucky to have me here to issue such warnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Well if we continue to be a third division mid-table side, I'd say our crowds will continue to be in the 4k mark. Let's face it, anyone that is really bored with this level has buggered off a long time ago. Personally, and for completely selfish reasons I wouldn't like a Northern League. I like the atmosphere and the collective drunkenness at away games. They might continue at around 4000 (although we've already seen crowds well below that this season) until an extra 500 or more are lopped off by the move to Failsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Is this why more clubs go into administration than ever before? You are right in saying that many lower division clubs try to perform a pathetic imitation of the PL and Championship clubs by gambling on success through paying high wages, but most of these clubs are living even further beyond their means than most clubs at the higher level. And it's a trap-one that we're stuck firmly in ourselves. It could only be rectified by a complete rebalancing of the financial structure of the entire game. That almost certainly will not come, and so clubs like ours are faced with the choice of continuing to run at a loss (unless aided by an ingenious plan such as that embodied in the defunct BP redevelopment project), or fall yet further behind. Furthermore, what you say depends on an assumption that everything in the wider economy and society remains as it is now (or was until recently). It won't. There will almost certainly be created a semblance of the supposed boom times that we've just lived through, but it will be more artificial than it was even then. Football, with all its stark financial unreality, is a particularly acute reflection of this artificiality. What we see unfolding before us (although masked by 'quantitative easing,' stimulus packages and low interest rates etc) is the end of the way of life the past few generations have grown to take for granted. As in wider society, in football the richest will look after themselves and let the rest go to the wall if necessary. Most people don't believe this but take a look at how things are in about twenty years' time and remember my prophecy. You are lucky to have me here to issue such warnings. I agree with much of that. I don't think it is beyond saving though. It will require a stern set of rules and regulations to keep clubs in check, which we aren't anywhere near getting. It will probably take 4-5 clubs going under to realise this. the best thing that can happen to football is West ham being liquidated. A so called big club going under will give a reality check and hopefully will wake people up to the impending situation. Like you, i don't think much of this will happen and see much of your prophecy coming true. I'd say a lowering of ability, and semi-professional teams in Divison 4 rather than the en masse apocalypse though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 To be honest 7 teams leave/join this league every season. Within 4 years there could be 24 completely new teams playing in League One. It's swings and roundabouts. 23 new clubs.....we will still be here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Is this why more clubs go into administration than ever before? . What we see unfolding before us (although masked by 'quantitative easing,' stimulus packages and low interest rates etc) is the end of the way of life the past few generations have grown to take for granted. As in wider society, in football the richest will look after themselves and let the rest go to the wall if necessary. Most people don't believe this but take a look at how things are in about twenty years' time and remember my prophecy. You are lucky to have me here to issue such warnings. I think many of these warnings were issued around 1992 when the 'best league' in the world began - the premier league. Yet, whilst these warnings continue to rise to the surface every few years and more and more lower league clubs find themselves in financial trouble, the powers that be continue to allow the huge financial gulf in our game that will eventually kill off many of the sides many of us have seen here at bp over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think many of these warnings were issued around 1992 when the 'best league' in the world began - the premier league. Yet, whilst these warnings continue to rise to the surface every few years and more and more lower league clubs find themselves in financial trouble, the powers that be continue to allow the huge financial gulf in our game that will eventually kill off many of the sides many of us have seen here at bp over the years. If we survive into the coming centuries historians will pinpoint our times as those when a collective madness took hold of society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think many of these warnings were issued around 1992 when the 'best league' in the world began - the premier league. Yet, whilst these warnings continue to rise to the surface every few years and more and more lower league clubs find themselves in financial trouble, the powers that be continue to allow the huge financial gulf in our game that will eventually kill off many of the sides many of us have seen here at bp over the years. I think many were issues in the late seventies/early eighties after Ramsey's wingless wonders won the world cup, and their impact made an influence on the English game - and Match of the Day came about - meaning TV was more exciting than dull live games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think many were issues in the late seventies/early eighties after Ramsey's wingless wonders won the world cup, and their impact made an influence on the English game - and Match of the Day came about - meaning TV was more exciting than dull live games. I suppose these were the humble beginnings of it all. Gerald Sinstadt, Elton Welsby et al, have a lot to answer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I suppose these were the humble beginnings of it all. Gerald Sinstadt, Elton Welsby et al, have a lot to answer for. Nah. Bin Laden has nowt on that big chinned bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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