For all those who moan about and don't want TTA in charge.........

[real]

If you see a hotbed of sky blues and dirty reds as a wider marketing area then I fear you might have early onset Alzheimers.

 

You can just see them deserting the richest club in the world or one of the currently most successful ones to watch a bunch of here-today-gone-tommorrow third division journeymen.

 

Well, moving half way into the hills of sholver won't expand our potential fan base, that's for sure. The only move that makes sense is one towards the borders of the town on the manchester side.

Sometimes you have to stop thinking about what we diddn't do 15 years ago and waht opportunities we didn't take, you have to just look at what you can do now and get on with it.

[Diego_Sideburns]

... I think someone else may have bought the club if they hadn't.

 

After the hoax Norwegian consortium, the Club was in Administration and 24 hours from liquidation, and the TTA ofer was the only one on the administrator's table.

[Corporal_Jones]

Well, moving half way into the hills of sholver won't expand our potential fan base, that's for sure. The only move that makes sense is one towards the borders of the town on the manchester side.

Sometimes you have to stop thinking about what we diddn't do 15 years ago and waht opportunities we didn't take, you have to just look at what you can do now and get on with it.

 

 

 

That's precisely my point. The failure by successive club regimes to arrest the slide during the last fifteen years has led us to the point where the only thing the club can do is settle for being another Bury or Rochdale, which is what a 12000 capacity stadium indicates they are set on. It won't save professional football in Oldham when it becomes clear that the lower divisions have had it any more than anything those clubs can feasibly do to safeguard it in their towns.

 

I don't recall advocating moving halfway into the hills of Sholver, by the way.

 

I'd still be interested in this 'wider audience' in Failsworth, if you get time.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[creepy]

The plans I've seen include 20 exec boxes on 1 side, a full conference suite on the other, match day dining for 200 in there and futher boxes on that side for them to watch the match. 12,000 seats, roughly 10,000 sq ft of office space, about half a dozen pitches and some land marked "for future" developments.

 

I thought you only had an issue with how many empty seats we were going to be getting anyway? You want something like £4m spending on having some empty seats - not sure if you want it from the team budget or you want the club £4m in debt, buy you never seem to say.

 

well you have seen the plans that nobody else has - well done for that, spae land? where have you got this from?

 

my issue is a piss poor 12000 (10500) self sufficient stadium run off a few rented out football pitches

 

team budget? whos team budget will that be off? it certainly wont be off the TTA - they will be gone

[Diego_Sideburns]

It will be interesting to see how much passion they have for the club once they sell it though?

 

Probably as much passion as the stayaways, whose absence has resulted in TTA having to keep dipping into their pockets. TTA kept their part of the bargain by saving the Club, but many of the fans, who were bemoaning the possible loss of the Club after the hoax Norwegian consortium, have not kept their part.

[Corporal_Jones]

Probably as much passion as the stayaways, whose absence has resulted in TTA having to keep dipping into their pockets. TTA kept their part of the bargain by saving the Club, but many of the fans, who were bemoaning the possible loss of the Club after the hoax Norwegian consortium, have not kept their part.

 

 

 

At all clubs, not just Latics, many supporters do stay away when they don't care for the football on offer, when facilities are poor and when it's far from clear what direction the club is set on moving. As explained in another thread, the problem is particularly acute at this club because a generation of fans grew up during an unbroken quarter century in the top two divisions and witnessed the club's best-ever years towards the end of that period. Demoralisation at the club's failure to recover at least some lost ground is seeing many of them drift away.

 

 

[Diego_Sideburns]

At all clubs, not just Latics, many supporters do stay away when they don't care for the football on offer, when facilities are poor and when it's far from clear what direction the club is set on moving. As explained in another thread, the problem is particularly acute at this club because a generation of fans grew up during an unbroken quarter century in the top two divisions and witnessed the club's best-ever years towards the end of that period. Demoralisation at the club's failure to recover at least some lost ground is seeing many of them drift away.

 

They drifted away after building up the expectations of TTA on 'Celebration Sunday'.

[oafc0000]

what do you mean by what has been proposed so far?

 

What was in the paper...

 

it isnt going to change is it, we are being forced into accepting a poor 12000 self sufficient stadium run off a few rented out football pitches

 

As sceptical as I am even I am prepared to wait for the final proposal before making my mind up...

 

its depressing how some latics fans are accepting it just for the sake of better facilites

 

I am all for fighting... We do need to know what we are fighting though..

 

[oafc0000]

The plans I've seen include 20 exec boxes on 1 side, a full conference suite on the other, match day dining for 200 in there and futher boxes on that side for them to watch the match. 12,000 seats, roughly 10,000 sq ft of office space, about half a dozen pitches and some land marked "for future" developments.

 

Sounds good... Why the feck are you getting to see them ? You part of the "inner circle" ?

 

[Corporal_Jones]

They drifted away after building up the expectations of TTA on 'Celebration Sunday'.

 

 

 

If TTA had really done so little homework prior to 'Celebration Sunday' that they thought it was in any way typical, then it's no wonder we're in such a mess. CS was a one-off. I made my way home from Piccadilly station to drop off my bags before heading up to BP, after working away for the previous week, and people were getting on the bus talking about the free match as early as Miles Platting. In other words they were not Latics fans.

 

In reality, the fans I seak of have been drifting away since 1994. Lately, due to the the latest failures and possibly concern at the proposed move, it seems to have reached crisis point.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[Diego_Sideburns]

If TTA had really done so little homework prior to 'Celebration Sunday' that they thought it was in any way typical, then it's no wonder we're in such a mess. CS was a one-off. I made my way home from Piccadilly station to drop off my bags before heading up to BP, after working away for the previous week, and people were getting on the bus talking about the free match as early as Miles Platting. In other words they were not Latics fans.

 

In reality, the fans I seak of have been drifting away since 1994. Lately, due to the the latest failures and possibly concern at the proposed move, it seems to have reached crisis point.

 

Of course TTA didn't think CS was a typical home game, and citing the possibility of such a thought as the reason for being in such a mess is ridiculous.

 

Perhaps the Miles Platting people are waiting for another CS at Failsworth.

 

The drifters since 1994 were worried about losing their Club in 2003, but it turns out that they just wanted to read about it in the rarely wrong Chron, which would turn off anyone from going to BP.

[Stitch_KTF]

I thought you only had an issue with how many empty seats we were going to be getting anyway? You want something like £4m spending on having some empty seats - not sure if you want it from the team budget or you want the club £4m in debt, buy you never seem to say.

 

It is a fair point, but I believe that if we had a 16000 seater stadium our average gate would be higher by 1500, so you can only claim back £2.5M for me. You see I go along with the thought that many will be put off by the apparent lack of future ambition. A 16000 ground could have been percieved as a fresh start for the club, and given them opportunity to rebuild the attending fanbase, where as the 12000 seater psychologically concludes the transition to minnow.

 

However....

 

I made my way home from Piccadilly station to drop off my bags before heading up to BP, after working away for the previous week, and people were getting on the bus talking about the free match as early as Miles Platting. In other words they were not Latics fans.

 

.....that is fairly encouraging regarding the new potential fanbase. Maybe a couple of seasons of CHEAP season tickets could set us up for a decent following in Failsworth? We could be every mancs second club, and an option for live football....

[Diego_Sideburns]

.....that is fairly encouraging regarding the new potential fanbase. Maybe a couple of seasons of CHEAP season tickets could set us up for a decent following in Failsworth? We could be every mancs second club, and an option for live football....

 

There's many a true word spoken in jest!

 

Back in the glory days, the gates that CJ talks about so fondly included Reds and Laser Blues, whose own teams didn't play with two wingers and provide the cracking entertainment so missed at BP nowadays. They used to get indignant if we weren't 3-0 up by half-time because they had bet on a high-scoring Latics victory.

[Corporal_Jones]

Of course TTA didn't think CS was a typical home game, and citing the possibility of such a thought as the reason for being in such a mess is ridiculous.

 

Perhaps the Miles Platting people are waiting for another CS at Failsworth.

 

The drifters since 1994 were worried about losing their Club in 2003, but it turns out that they just wanted to read about it in the rarely wrong Chron, which would turn off anyone from going to BP.

 

 

I didn't say they might have thought it was a typical home game. I simply explained how it was a one-off after you said those who attended let TTA down by not coming back. Although this isn't strictly true. Gates had modestly improved from the Chris Moore days onwards, and if momentum could have been sustained more would have returned on a regular basis, just like has happened before. The gradual fall-off, which seems to have turned into a sharp dip, has come after several more wasted seasons that have set our permanent lower division status in concrete.

 

Perhaps some people from MP and other parts of north/east Manchester would come to Failsworth for another free game. There won't be many of them regularly shelling out twenty-odd quid a time for third division football, however.

 

It isn't primarily reading the Chronicle that puts people off coming to BP, but the reality of the club's situation. We aren't struggling in the third division with no prospect of improvement just because the local papper says we are. It's actually happening. 'This is no dream, this is real,' as Mia Farrow says in Rosemary's Baby.

[Corporal_Jones]

There's many a true word spoken in jest!

 

Back in the glory days, the gates that CJ talks about so fondly included Reds and Laser Blues, whose own teams didn't play with two wingers and provide the cracking entertainment so missed at BP nowadays. They used to get indignant if we weren't 3-0 up by half-time because they had bet on a high-scoring Latics victory.

 

 

We doubtless could attract some Manc reds and blues again-if we were to put together a team capable of doing something spectacular. But, as has to be continually emphasised, the smallness of the proposed stadium suggests only the intention of survival amidst lower division mediocrity-which will never generate the money that assembling a squad capable of something special would cost.

 

We wouldn't get them in the same numbers, though. Not only have both Manchester clubs improved their facilities beyond recognition, but their teams are packed with international stars and you can get to see them for not that much less than watching Latics. And we didn't have saturation TV coverage of football in those days either.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[Diego_Sideburns]

QUOTE (Diego_Sideburns @ Nov 9 2009, 19:22 PM)

Just stretch your imagination to its maximum, and let's say we get promoted this season, via an unexpected purple patch, taking us into the Play-offs and getting 0-0 in both semi-finals and the final at Wembley, and winning on penalties. Then next season, we start with BP full and enough additional people moaning outside to fill a 16,000 capacity stadium. Then we're never out of the bottom three all season.

 

What do you think would be the consequences?

 

Relegation.

 

Smaller crowds?

 

CJ tells us the club's future depends on ambitious owners producing a winning team, so that the stayaways will return and get gates up to 16,000. So if the plans to be announced were to include a 16,000 seater stadium, it would be seen to be a white elephant as soon as we started to punch above our weight and were facing relegation, and the returned stayaways stayed away once more.

 

The Club's future depends on the fickleness of the stayaways, so it is never going to be viable unless the non-football activities produce sufficient revenue. Walsall FC is in a similar position and has survived for years on revenue produced by its conference facilities and a Sunday Market at the stadium.

[Ak's11]

The hard facts are OAFC is broke and TTA have bankrolled it. They tried for promotion and the gamble failed, so now they have to cut back and the muppets don't like it because they don't understand simple finance.

 

I think Failsworth is a mistake and won't happen due to the opposition to it. That will then see TTA go I fear and that will leave us in a complete mess again.

 

 

How can you say you think failsworth is a mistake if it will help the club to survive !?

 

Opositon......there are about 200 of them!

 

Would you rather not have a club? im lost

Edited November 10, 2009 by 8city2

[Matt]

im lost

So am I and a whole raft of others.

 

The club is on it's arse no matter how you dress it up.

[Lags]

So am I and a whole raft of others.

 

The club is on it's arse no matter how you dress it up.

 

Rummy, I've noticed an air of depression regarding Latics and a downer opinion of TTA/Corney in your posts of late, can we help brother? what's happened?

[Matt]

Rummy, I've noticed an air of depression regarding Latics and a downer opinion of TTA/Corney in your posts of late, can we help brother? what's happened?

I'm just not drawn to the experience any more, a ground that's been left to rot, nowt decent to eat in the stadium, shop that's stocked with bits and bobs, boring game day, it's all been said before - and I'm sure we don't want to debate it again. The Yeovil game was the last straw for me, billed as a family day yet there were bugger all there attracting the kids and the families of the kids to make them say - "Y'know what, I think we'll come again....". The match is irrelevant, what happens on the pitch is a sub heading under the title - MATCH DAY EXPERIENCE, and quite frankly the OAFC agenda underneath is found wanting.

 

It was never all that good was it but it was never as bad as this. I can pinpoint me switching off when they pulled the Lookers down, the lads I went with have all but stopped going since (about 10 of us).

[Corporal_Jones]

 

 

 

 

 

CJ tells us the club's future depends on ambitious owners producing a winning team, so that the stayaways will return and get gates up to 16,000. So if the plans to be announced were to include a 16,000 seater stadium, it would be seen to be a white elephant as soon as we started to punch above our weight and were facing relegation, and the returned stayaways stayed away once more.

 

The Club's future depends on the fickleness of the stayaways, so it is never going to be viable unless the non-football activities produce sufficient revenue. Walsall FC is in a similar position and has survived for years on revenue produced by its conference facilities and a Sunday Market at the stadium.

 

 

 

 

Walsall survives; it doesn't thrive. I want Latics to do more than survive. I want them to be able to compete with similar clubs in similar towns to Oldham who are managing to be far more successful, for some reason, than OAFC. There is no reason why we can't be, although excuses can always be found. Mere survival has very little point to it.

 

I suspect I'm in the majority amongst those who consider them Latics fans. The only difference is that I haven't stopped going to games. The reason for low crowds is lack of success, pure and simple.

 

You seem to think that we are the only club that suffers from the kind of fickleness of which you speak when, in fact, the vast majority of clubs are subject to it. The secret lies in staving off the conditions that cause supporters to drift away.

 

Tough on fickleness; tough on the causes of fickleness.

[outoftheblue]

I'm just not drawn to the experience any more, a ground that's been left to rot, nowt decent to eat in the stadium, shop that's stocked with bits and bobs, boring game day, it's all been said before - and I'm sure we don't want to debate it again. The Yeovil game was the last straw for me, billed as a family day yet there were bugger all there attracting the kids and the families of the kids to make them say - "Y'know what, I think we'll come again....". The match is irrelevant, what happens on the pitch is a sub heading under the title - MATCH DAY EXPERIENCE, and quite frankly the OAFC agenda underneath is found wanting.

 

It was never all that good was it but it was never as bad as this. I can pinpoint me switching off when they pulled the Lookers down, the lads I went with have all but stopped going since (about 10 of us).

Totally agree.

The promises of wonderful new stadia, better facilities, increased atmosphere etc hold no water when the club is still shackled with a clueless marketing department, poor catering contracts, and a toothless playing squad.

Take these 'attributes' to a full Old Trafford, and the attendance would drop to 20,000 by the end of the season.

I look forward to the beer on Saturdays more than the football 'experience' nowadays. The Blue Crew, a furry owl and a half-time lottery ain't enough to entertain me I'm afraid.

[Lags]

I'm just not drawn to the experience any more, a ground that's been left to rot, nowt decent to eat in the stadium, shop that's stocked with bits and bobs, boring game day, it's all been said before - and I'm sure we don't want to debate it again. The Yeovil game was the last straw for me, billed as a family day yet there were bugger all there attracting the kids and the families of the kids to make them say - "Y'know what, I think we'll come again....". The match is irrelevant, what happens on the pitch is a sub heading under the title - MATCH DAY EXPERIENCE, and quite frankly the OAFC agenda underneath is found wanting.

 

It was never all that good was it but it was never as bad as this. I can pinpoint me switching off when they pulled the Lookers down, the lads I went with have all but stopped going since (about 10 of us).

 

Aye I hear your reason's loud and clear. They are very valid points. The social aspect of your match day as gone and I should imagine that for you was possibly as big as the match itself. The sooner the stadium can be resolved the better and hopefully we'll all find a part of it we call home and the social banter that will return due to it.

[oafc0000]

I'm just not drawn to the experience any more, a ground that's been left to rot, nowt decent to eat in the stadium, shop that's stocked with bits and bobs, boring game day, it's all been said before - and I'm sure we don't want to debate it again. The Yeovil game was the last straw for me, billed as a family day yet there were bugger all there attracting the kids and the families of the kids to make them say - "Y'know what, I think we'll come again....". The match is irrelevant, what happens on the pitch is a sub heading under the title - MATCH DAY EXPERIENCE, and quite frankly the OAFC agenda underneath is found wanting.

 

It was never all that good was it but it was never as bad as this. I can pinpoint me switching off when they pulled the Lookers down, the lads I went with have all but stopped going since (about 10 of us).

 

Its like hearing an echo... I feel much the same...

[edhunteruk]

Its like hearing an echo... I feel much the same...

 

you know what there is a lot of people echoing those sentiments,people who have been going to latics since they were small...im the same at the moment,i really dont enjoy going anymore,i find it quite tedious and embarressing at times,and im damned in this day and age if im going to keep throwing 20 quid away when it can be spent on better things,more enjoyable.