Dave_Og Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Don't talk wet. I'm never, ever on over 95% of threads, as you'd see if you read them. The fact that TTA seem to be the only game in town is exactly the point. Having failed to revive the club, they are looking to stabilise it as a lower division outfit. The point about apathy works both ways: if the club wants more people throught he turnstiles, it has to do something to attract them. We already know that the only way to do this is through sustained success on the pitch, not gimmicks and offers. That we have lost over 2000 regular home fans under TTA's tenure tells us everything we need to know about their period in charge. Yes, I think we can say that they have failed and I'm sure they and their bank balances are well aware of that fact. I don't know them, I've never met them but I dolknow that there are many other club owners who would have walked away by now rather than trying to leave things on a stable footing. If you want to criticise them for that then that's you prerogative but I don;t think it's especially fair. Edited December 30, 2009 by Dave_Og Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Yes, I think we can say that they have failed and I'm sure they and their bank balances are well aware of that fact. I don't know them, I've never met them but I dolknow that there are many other club owners who would have walked away by now rather than trying to leave things on a stable footing. If you want to criticise them for that then that's you prerogative but I don;t think it's especially fair. I'm not interested in fair. Nobody asked them to buy the club, and they didn't do it as a personal favour to you, me or any other supporter, but for reasons of their own. I'm interested in the fact that we were promised Championship football and a stadium to go with it. Maybe they are trying to leave the club on a stable footing, but, as the low capacity projected for Failsworth indicates, it is to be a stable footing in the lower divisions. For good. When David Brierley took over as chairman he said that 'This club needs stability.' What will have changed apart from the fact that we'll be playing away from the club's traditional heartland in a smaller stadium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm not interested in fair. Nobody asked them to buy the club, and they didn't do it as a personal favour to you, me or any other supporter, but for reasons of their own. I'm interested in the fact that we were promised Championship football and a stadium to go with it. Maybe they are trying to leave the club on a stable footing, but, as the low capacity projected for Failsworth indicates, it is to be a stable footing in the lower divisions. For good. When David Brierley took over as chairman he said that 'This club needs stability.' What will have changed apart from the fact that we'll be playing away from the club's traditional heartland in a smaller stadium? I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that such things can actually be promised, are they? If you don't do fair then how about doing realistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that such things can actually be promised, are they? If you don't do fair then how about doing realistic? They can't be promised, but the 'realistic' aim of consolidating at this level for ever is about as far away from what was discussed at the open meeting in the RRE as it's possible to get. This club has spent too long being realistic. Bleating 'pinch me' in the early 1990s was supposed to be realistic, and the attitude landed us up where we are now. 'Realistic' will eventually kill the club. Edited December 30, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 They can't be promised, but the 'realistic' aim of consolidating at this level for ever is about as far away from what was discussed at the open meeting in the RRE as it's possible to get. This club has spent too long being realistic. Bleating 'pinch me' in the early 1990s was supposed to be realistic, and the attitude landed us up where we are now. 'Realistic' will eventually kill the club. I think it may well do so but you are asking someone to invest unrealistically - not really much of an option. I don't doubt for a second that TTA would sell if soomeone came along with the funds to develop as we all might wish but I'm afraid it just isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) I think it may well do so but you are asking someone to invest unrealistically - not really much of an option. I don't doubt for a second that TTA would sell if soomeone came along with the funds to develop as we all might wish but I'm afraid it just isn't going to happen. Which means no future worth bothering with. Falling away from where all the money in the game was, at exactly the wrong time, has knackered the club. Edited December 30, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Which means no future worth bothering with. Falling away from where all the money in the game was, at exactly the wrong time, has knackered the club. that maybe so..but you cant hold the current board accountable for previous boards misgivings can you... everybody knew when we got relegated form the premier league that that was it,they sold the best players then pocketed the cash and asset stripped the club,without putting anything at all back in.... but that isnt this boards fault is it....yes they may have naively promised us championship football and a new stadium...and there is no saying they wont leave us with that is there..regardless of what size it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 that maybe so..but you cant hold the current board accountable for previous boards misgivings can you... everybody knew when we got relegated form the premier league that that was it,they sold the best players then pocketed the cash and asset stripped the club,without putting anything at all back in.... but that isnt this boards fault is it....yes they may have naively promised us championship football and a new stadium...and there is no saying they wont leave us with that is there..regardless of what size it is. £100 to a favourite charity says that they won't. Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 £100 to a favourite charity says that they won't. Deal? if i had £100 i would of bought a half season ticket with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 if i had £100 i would of bought a half season ticket with it. No faith in your own convictions then? Don't worry-anybody I've made a similar offer to on here has also made their excuses and left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yes: crap small stadiums. Then again, they are historically minnows. Having been bogged down here so long, and because the board lacks the wherewithal to revive us, we are using their like as the example from which this club can be remodelled as a minnow. yup but these historical minnows who had crap stadiums are in championship and top end of league 1 and have money to spend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Don't worry-anybody I've made a similar offer to on here has also made their excuses and left. Yes - I made the excuse that you were offering me an unbelievably :censored: bet that wasn't even based on anything I'd said. I tried to negotiate but that isn't your strongest point, is it chief? Anyway, Happy New Year to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yes - I made the excuse that you were offering me an unbelievably :censored: bet that wasn't even based on anything I'd said. I tried to negotiate but that isn't your strongest point, is it chief? Anyway, Happy New Year to you! Yes, but our bet originated from you having claimed that the play-offs weren't an impossibility this season. Second thoughts about which led to your attempts at renegotiation. Happy New Year to you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 yup but these historical minnows who had crap stadiums are in championship and top end of league 1 and have money to spend! Do Scunthorpe have that much money to spend? I know that it's said that Colchester have a certain amount, but that seems to have come about due to the makeup of their current board, as opposed to their new stadium, any effects of which have surely yet to be felt. I'd be surprised if Scunthorpe's dour flatpack stadium has generated any significant funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 No faith in your own convictions then? Don't worry-anybody I've made a similar offer to on here has also made their excuses and left. i have every faith in my convictions...i just havent got a spare £100 knocking about....recession and just had christmas and that what time limit are you putting on this supposed bet then,in the tta ownership or in the next 2 years etc... i just hope that if this move comes off,we attain self sufficiency and achieve promotion to the championship sustain and consoladate that you are at least man enough to come back on here and eat the biggest portion of humble pie available and admit you got it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 what time limit are you putting on this supposed bet then,in the tta ownership or in the next 2 years etc... i just hope that if this move comes off,we attain self sufficiency and achieve promotion to the championship sustain and consoladate that you are at least man enough to come back on here and eat the biggest portion of humble pie available and admit you got it wrong. I will willingly hold my hands up if I'm wrong. I'd love to be wrong. But I won't be. So a time limit? As long as TTA are here, and beyond if the club is trying to operate on the 'plan' that apparently accompanies the little ground in Failsworth, we will never see the Championship. We are more likely to experience the fourth division. As the club knows very well. They basically given up on anything other than mere existence as some sort of lower divsion club. So have many of the dwindling band of hardcore supporters, although they'd never admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 and beyond if the club is trying to operate on the 'plan' that apparently accompanies the little ground in Failsworth Doesn't this bit of your "bet" require a subjective judgement as to whether the bet still applies or not? And therefore makes it un-testable? How about a straight bet - you say we're more likely to go down, others say up, set a 10 yr limit? No payout for staying in the same division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Doesn't this bit of your "bet" require a subjective judgement as to whether the bet still applies or not? And therefore makes it un-testable? How about a straight bet - you say we're more likely to go down, others say up, set a 10 yr limit? No payout for staying in the same division. I'm not arguing that going down is certain. I'm saying that promotion to the Championship is off the agenda for good, unless some seriously wealthy ownership miraculously comes the club's way. Nothing even the slightest bit complicated about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) I'm saying that promotion to the Championship is off the agenda for good, unless some seriously wealthy ownership miraculously comes the club's way. Or a half decent manager gets the right blend of youngsters and journeymen to play together in a way that takes them in to the automatic promotion spots. The margins between success and failure are relatively narrow and what has become clear in recent years is that the richest teams don't always win everything in the lower leagues. (mix that with a wealthy owner and I'd agree it becomes easier). Edited January 1, 2010 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Or a half decent manager gets the right blend of youngsters and journeymen to play together in a way that takes them in to the automatic promotion spots. The margins between success and failure are relatively narrow and what has become clear in recent years is that the richest teams don't always win everything in the lower leagues. Yes, but we've been listening to this kind of thing for the best part of fifteen years. Look at the progress we've made. If you always do the same thing, you'll always get the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Yes, but we've been listening to this kind of thing for the best part of fifteen years. Look at the progress we've made. If you always do the same thing, you'll always get the same result. They never found the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 They never found the manager. Where was he hiding? ('They' never will find him, by the way.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I'm not arguing that going down is certain. I'm saying that promotion to the Championship is off the agenda for good, unless some seriously wealthy ownership miraculously comes the club's way. Nothing even the slightest bit complicated about that. Eh? The bet only requires you to pay out if we go up - you say that's not going to happen anyway. As for what you have to say about going down, you say it's more likely than going up. Once again you are wraapping your "bet" up with quaalifications. You can't lay that type of bet at William Hill, try it: "I bet Oldham will not get promoted, but my bet is rescinded if some "seriously wealthy owner" comes along" Come on corp, give an honest bet, and people will take you up. Or is that your fear? Stop playing silly kids games. Oh and while were on it again, can you and zero stop giving it the "the abuse me and him have to take is craazy" stuff - you hardly get anything but you're forever giving it the "nodding dogs"/"happy clappers"/"party line". If your points are valid and convincing, why the need to use these playground slurs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Where was he hiding? ('They' never will find him, by the way.) you cant come out and say they will never find him unless you back it up with hard facts....and lets face it you cant,so you should say in my honest opinion,i dont think we ever will... we came close with dowie,we came a bit closer with shez,but he reached his limits and coundlt control the dressing room.. im sure imho if we back a mananger with time and a decent budget sooner or later we will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) you cant come out and say they will never find him unless you back it up with hard facts....and lets face it you cant,so you should say in my honest opinion,i dont think we ever will... we came close with dowie,we came a bit closer with shez,but he reached his limits and coundlt control the dressing room.. im sure imho if we back a mananger with time and a decent budget sooner or later we will be there. I'm not saying it's a fact. As it seems I have to repeatedly explain for the more 'challenged' of our posters, it's a prediction based on past experience and observation of current trends. Everybody is free to take it or leave it and I'll have have to console myself is the hollow satisfaction of being able to say, 'I told you so.' Edited January 1, 2010 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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