Whitaker in not a winger, Smalley in not a striker and Colbeck is not a player.

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Penney has just baffled me recently with some of his decision. I'm not a sack the manager merchant by any stretch of the imagination.

 

First of all, Whitaker does not have the agility, pace or technique to be a winger, whilst he might be able to cross he doesn't get in the position required to deliver a good cross. He's a central midfielder. Play him there.

 

Smalley isn't not a striker as much as Whitaker isn't a winger, but still Smalley's best game is on the wing and when our two wing positions are occupied by players who are incompetent (in those positions) it begs the question why we didn't choose to play Smalley, a more natural winger. Smalley up front might get a few goals here and there, but he will if he's played on the wing.

 

Colbeck, need I say anything, he's not a good player, he's not a professional footballer.

 

Why didn't we start Blackman? It's these sort of game where we need a target man up front, not a winger. Everything I've seen of Blackman is promising, he's still young but he can take the ball down with it and turn, that's a start.

[beag_teeets]

You got back from the game quick.

[JonesyOAFC]

I had a dream last night that it was revealed Whittaker was actually in his 40's. Not one of my better dreams i've got to be honest...

 

And I too don't understand why Blackman doesn't start. I've not seen much of him, but he's look decent when I have seen him. Better than Smalley up top anyway...

[jsslatic]

Colbeck, need I say anything, he's not a good player, he's not a professional footballer.

 

Nonsense.

[razza699]

Colbeck, need I say anything, he's not a good player, he's not a professional footballer.

 

 

yet he tries harder than any other player on the pitch

 

give me effort over skill at this moment in time

 

 

[oafc-latics]

has blackman been injured recently? that may be why he was on the bench similar to tayls and pav.

 

colbeck seems tto be improving which can only be good and its obvious we are short of players at the moment. thats why lee played, whitaker played on the wing and smalley was up front.

 

smalley and whits have both shown that they can do an ok job in those positions so under the circumstances, it was the best we could do.

 

the official report on the website says we were unlucky to concede 2 goals and only score one and it sounds like a game that didnt go our way. orient next which is must win. the players need as many fans as possible at BP for that and i think we can get a positive result.

[leeslover]

I had a dream last night that it was revealed Whittaker was actually in his 40's. Not one of my better dreams i've got to be honest...

 

And I too don't understand why Blackman doesn't start. I've not seen much of him, but he's look decent when I have seen him. Better than Smalley up top anyway...

t'other thread

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Nonsense.

 

Well yeah, on a technicality it is nonsense, because he is officially a professional footballer.

 

But ability wise.....he's not a professional footballer.

 

 

 

 

And I do apologise for the thread title, I do suspect I suffer from a mild form of dyslexia or sumfink.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Bring Back Ronnie Moore

[Butter]

yet he tries harder than any other player on the pitch

 

give me effort over skill at this moment in time

 

Every single person on this board would "try hard".

He isnt good enough like a lot out there. It also doesnt help that players are not being played in their preffered and most effective positions for the team.

Square pegs round holes for about the 3rd season in a row.

[BP1960]

Every single person on this board would "try hard".

He isnt good enough like a lot out there. It also doesnt help that players are not being played in their preffered and most effective positions for the team.

Square pegs round holes for about the 3rd season in a row.

 

The story goes when a forward was recommended to Joe Royle he asked 'Can they create goals ? Can they score goals '?

'You can't have enough strikers' was one of his sayings.

 

[Forte_Baby]

Penney has just baffled me recently with some of his decision. I'm not a sack the manager merchant by any stretch of the imagination.

 

First of all, Whitaker does not have the agility, pace or technique to be a winger, whilst he might be able to cross he doesn't get in the position required to deliver a good cross. He's a central midfielder. Play him there.

 

Smalley isn't not a striker as much as Whitaker isn't a winger, but still Smalley's best game is on the wing and when our two wing positions are occupied by players who are incompetent (in those positions) it begs the question why we didn't choose to play Smalley, a more natural winger. Smalley up front might get a few goals here and there, but he will if he's played on the wing.

 

Colbeck, need I say anything, he's not a good player, he's not a professional footballer.

 

Why didn't we start Blackman? It's these sort of game where we need a target man up front, not a winger. Everything I've seen of Blackman is promising, he's still young but he can take the ball down with it and turn, that's a start.

 

 

Replace Whittaker with Brooke.

[wardlelatic]

Replace Whittaker with Brooke.

 

 

midfielder for a Striker ???

 

 

[De_La_Vega]

Penney has just baffled me recently with some of his decision. I'm not a sack the manager merchant by any stretch of the imagination.

 

First of all, Whitaker does not have the agility, pace or technique to be a winger, whilst he might be able to cross he doesn't get in the position required to deliver a good cross. He's a central midfielder. Play him there.

 

Smalley isn't not a striker as much as Whitaker isn't a winger, but still Smalley's best game is on the wing and when our two wing positions are occupied by players who are incompetent (in those positions) it begs the question why we didn't choose to play Smalley, a more natural winger. Smalley up front might get a few goals here and there, but he will if he's played on the wing.

 

Colbeck, need I say anything, he's not a good player, he's not a professional footballer.

 

Why didn't we start Blackman? It's these sort of game where we need a target man up front, not a winger. Everything I've seen of Blackman is promising, he's still young but he can take the ball down with it and turn, that's a start.

 

Drivel, utter drivel.

 

Whitaker isn't a winger, but playing wide doesn't mean that you have to be a winger - one Steven Gerrard does it for no less a team than England to some success I think. By playing him out wide the hope is that he will get on the ball in behind the strikers and influence the game by cutting inside, as I think you will find he did against MK Dons in what was probably our best performance of the season. The fact is that he is one of our best passers of the ball but just does not carry enough of a physical edge to play in central midfield.

 

As for Colbeck that is just plain wrong - the guy is a winger who puts in genuinely good crosses, and that is a not despicable skill. The problem is that he also has a number of rough edges that need to be ironed out, but none of them that I have seen are insurmountable and given a good attitude and hard work he could be a good player.

 

As for Smalley he is a striker. Or at least, if he is a winger then he isn't a footballer. He cannot cross the ball, cannot beat a man and does not have the pace to take a fullback on the outside. What he does have is height, a good touch and the ability to worm himself a few yards of space when stood up against his man - all of which could be useful skills in the box. Plus his major issue that I see is that he has no concept of what to do with the ball when given space and time; he invariably loses it through sloppy play. In the box that should take a back seat to instinct.

[BigfinLatic]

Drivel, utter drivel.

 

Whitaker isn't a winger, but playing wide doesn't mean that you have to be a winger - one Steven Gerrard does it for no less a team than England to some success I think. By playing him out wide the hope is that he will get on the ball in behind the strikers and influence the game by cutting inside, as I think you will find he did against MK Dons in what was probably our best performance of the season. The fact is that he is one of our best passers of the ball but just does not carry enough of a physical edge to play in central midfield.

 

As for Colbeck that is just plain wrong - the guy is a winger who puts in genuinely good crosses, and that is a not despicable skill. The problem is that he also has a number of rough edges that need to be ironed out, but none of them that I have seen are insurmountable and given a good attitude and hard work he could be a good player.

 

As for Smalley he is a striker. Or at least, if he is a winger then he isn't a footballer. He cannot cross the ball, cannot beat a man and does not have the pace to take a fullback on the outside. What he does have is height, a good touch and the ability to worm himself a few yards of space when stood up against his man - all of which could be useful skills in the box. Plus his major issue that I see is that he has no concept of what to do with the ball when given space and time; he invariably loses it through sloppy play. In the box that should take a back seat to instinct.

 

100% Spot on. Every single word correct.

 

Especially the stuff on Whits... anyone who thinks this guy should be anywhere near the engine room of a team is just barmy. I would rather see him on the bench, however if he has to play the wing is the only place we can accomodate him, he just cant influence a game anywhere near enough to play CM.

 

 

[De_La_Vega]

I agree that Whitaker would be best from the bench. I'm not blaming him entirely; he's a player with some qualities and we as a team struggle to get him into a position to use them. The bottom line seems to be that we are not good enough to build around Whits, and he isn't really good enough to build a team around.

 

My best use for him would be as a sub for the last twenty minutes - let the midfield battle work itself out a bit and then get Whitaker on when there is a bit more space for him to get into due to tired legs, then he can use his range of passing and get up to the edge of the box where he is genuinely dangerous with his long-range shooting. He does, unfortunately given his flaws, remain one of our only players who seems capable of genuinely opening up a game.

[BP1960]

I agree that Whitaker would be best from the bench. I'm not blaming him entirely; he's a player with some qualities and we as a team struggle to get him into a position to use them. The bottom line seems to be that we are not good enough to build around Whits, and he isn't really good enough to build a team around.

 

My best use for him would be as a sub for the last twenty minutes - let the midfield battle work itself out a bit and then get Whitaker on when there is a bit more space for him to get into due to tired legs, then he can use his range of passing and get up to the edge of the box where he is genuinely dangerous with his long-range shooting. He does, unfortunately given his flaws, remain one of our only players who seems capable of genuinely opening up a game.

 

How often have we seen this season players not used to the best of their ability.

The only instruction to Whitaker should be get yourself free around the edge of the penalty area and shoot on sight.

If he has half a dozen shots the odds are he will score at least one goal.

Unfortunately, he doesn't appear in that area often enough and that's down to negative tactics.

 

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Drivel, utter drivel.

 

Whitaker isn't a winger, but playing wide doesn't mean that you have to be a winger - one Steven Gerrard does it for no less a team than England to some success I think. By playing him out wide the hope is that he will get on the ball in behind the strikers and influence the game by cutting inside, as I think you will find he did against MK Dons in what was probably our best performance of the season. The fact is that he is one of our best passers of the ball but just does not carry enough of a physical edge to play in central midfield.

 

As for Colbeck that is just plain wrong - the guy is a winger who puts in genuinely good crosses, and that is a not despicable skill. The problem is that he also has a number of rough edges that need to be ironed out, but none of them that I have seen are insurmountable and given a good attitude and hard work he could be a good player.

 

As for Smalley he is a striker. Or at least, if he is a winger then he isn't a footballer. He cannot cross the ball, cannot beat a man and does not have the pace to take a fullback on the outside. What he does have is height, a good touch and the ability to worm himself a few yards of space when stood up against his man - all of which could be useful skills in the box. Plus his major issue that I see is that he has no concept of what to do with the ball when given space and time; he invariably loses it through sloppy play. In the box that should take a back seat to instinct.

 

Comparing Danny Whitaker to Steven Gerrard?

 

 

As for Colbeck, he doesn't have any control, when he gets the ball he usually gets muscled off or falls over. There's a slight chance you're right and he does turn out to be good, but considering Bradford fans were rofling at us when we PAID for him. I doubt it. In fact, I'll go out on a whim to say Colbeck won't come good for us and the fact he's playing first choice winger for us indicates why were are 18th in the table. Would he get in any top 6 team in this division? He wouldn't get in a top 10 side. He probably shouldn't get in a professional side. But we'll see how he goes. Somehow I don't think I'll be eating crow on this one.

 

Smalley isn't smart enough to be a striker and he's not strong enough either to be a target man, but he's not completely weak like Colbeck he can hold his own out on the wing. But to say he doesn't have the pace to be a to be a winger is bat shít insane because he clearly does. And equally so to say he can't beat a man, because he's proven time and time again that he can. Last season he was doing it for fun but his end product wasn't all that great but he still chipped in with a few goals. This season he hasn't been at his best, he was injured for a while and came back to a team which were playing badly and he's been shuffled about the place and hasn't been playing on the wing much. Just wait until our injury problems solve and he starts playing consistently on with wing with players like Pav to support him. He should improve his crossing, I agree that is one of his weaker aspects but other than that he has the tools to be a good winger.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Bring Back Ronnie Moore

[De_La_Vega]

Comparing Danny Whitaker to Steven Gerrard?

 

 

As for Colbeck, he doesn't have any control, when he gets the ball he usually gets muscled off or falls over. There's a slight chance you're right and he does turn out to be good, but considering Bradford fans were rofling at us when we PAID for him. I doubt it. In fact, I'll go out on a whim to say Colbeck won't come good for us and the fact he's playing first choice winger for us indicates why were are 18th in the table. Would he get in any top 6 team in this division? He wouldn't get in a top 10 side. He probably shouldn't get in a professional side. But we'll see how he goes. Somehow I don't think I'll be eating crow on this one.

 

Smalley isn't smart enough to be a striker and he's not strong enough either to be a target man, but he's not completely weak like Colbeck he can hold his own out on the wing. But to say he doesn't have the pace to be a to be a winger is bat shít insane because he clearly does. And equally so to say he can't beat a man, because he's proven time and time again that he can. Last season he was doing it for fun but his end product wasn't all that great but he still chipped in with a few goals. This season he hasn't been at his best, he was injured for a while and came back to a team which were playing badly and he's been shuffled about the place and hasn't been playing on the wing much. Just wait until our injury problems solve and he starts playing consistently on with wing with players like Pav to support him. He should improve his crossing, I agree that is one of his weaker aspects but other than that he has the tools to be a good winger.

 

I'm not for comparing Whits to Gerrard, just the parallels of a centre-mid finding that there is more space to create and influence the game by playing wide. Joe Cole found the same at Chelsea, and it has become common practice for successful teams to sacrifice creativity in the middle to play tacklers - Brazil are another perfect example. Clearly we aren't Brazil, but the comparison is valid because we are not having to play Argentina - it is about context.

 

As for Colbeck I happen to think he was a strange choice to bring in - but the idea that he has no qualities and is out and out :censored: is just ridiculous. If he'd come through the youth team he would not be facing allegations like that because people would look at what he can do rather than what he can't. The last word on him is that he can cross a good ball which is not particularly common amongst wingers at any level. It is a weakness in Premier League wingers like Lennon and so to have that ability should not be scoffed at.

 

Finally Smalley - doff the rose tinted specs and tell me when he beat a man for pace. He has never done it for fun and he never will, but that isn't a crime because not many players run quickly with the ball - Chris Taylor looks special for the very reason that he does and it is rare. Smalley only ever beats a man when he is stood up one on one with the ball dead at his feet. He can then use a bit of skill and a quick change of balance to work half a yard. If you can point to one game where he skinned people apart from Stockport at home last year (when he was magnificent) then I will retire a beaten man - but you can't because they just aren't there.

 

Bottom line on the Colbeck-Smalley issue is that the latter has not really kicked on in three seasons. There is terrific potential in the lad, but he has not shown improvement from when he first got into the team. Colbeck meanwhile has been castigated becasue the moment he pulled on the shirt he wasn't the complete package. Where is the consistency? Smalley gets spoken about in hushed tones while Colbeck is accused of being a waste of oxygen - it is bollocks to put it bluntly.

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Finally Smalley - doff the rose tinted specs and tell me when he beat a man for pace.

 

The Latics World archives are now gone, so I can't get specific matches to show as proof. BUT, asking me to tell you matches where Smalley has beat a man is like asking me to tell you about matches where Taylor has, or where Pawel has chested the ball down, or Gregan won a header. Smalley beats his fullback often, usually though he doesn't do anything great with it after, but he can get the ball and run at full backs and beat them. He's green, but the potential he shows is a lot better than what Colbeck is showing. Colbeck can beat a man, but he rarely gets the space to, he's far to lightweight to hold his own against fullbacks, one nudge and he loses the ball. If he was stronger he'd be a better winger. As I've said Colbeck might turn good, but at the moment he stands out as a terrible player for me and playing him on one wing and Whitaker on the other just seems to juxtapose, with our league position, of course it's not the sole cause of, but could you imagine either one playing on the wings of a better team in the division?

[LaticsPete]

The Latics World archives are now gone, so I can't get specific matches to show as proof. BUT, asking me to tell you matches where Smalley has beat a man is like asking me to tell you about matches where Taylor has, or where Pawel has chested the ball down, or Gregan won a header. Smalley beats his fullback often, usually though he doesn't do anything great with it after, but he can get the ball and run at full backs and beat them. He's green, but the potential he shows is a lot better than what Colbeck is showing. Colbeck can beat a man, but he rarely gets the space to, he's far to lightweight to hold his own against fullbacks, one nudge and he loses the ball. If he was stronger he'd be a better winger. As I've said Colbeck might turn good, but at the moment he stands out as a terrible player for me and playing him on one wing and Whitaker on the other just seems to juxtapose, with our league position, of course it's not the sole cause of, but could you imagine either one playing on the wings of a better team in the division?

 

 

yesterday.

 

not yesterday

Edited January 3, 2010 by LaticsPete

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

yesterday.

 

not yesterday

 

Nothing to do with the fact he was playing upfront yesterday and not on the wing.

[De_La_Vega]

The Latics World archives are now gone, so I can't get specific matches to show as proof. BUT, asking me to tell you matches where Smalley has beat a man is like asking me to tell you about matches where Taylor has, or where Pawel has chested the ball down, or Gregan won a header. Smalley beats his fullback often, usually though he doesn't do anything great with it after, but he can get the ball and run at full backs and beat them. He's green, but the potential he shows is a lot better than what Colbeck is showing. Colbeck can beat a man, but he rarely gets the space to, he's far to lightweight to hold his own against fullbacks, one nudge and he loses the ball. If he was stronger he'd be a better winger. As I've said Colbeck might turn good, but at the moment he stands out as a terrible player for me and playing him on one wing and Whitaker on the other just seems to juxtapose, with our league position, of course it's not the sole cause of, but could you imagine either one playing on the wings of a better team in the division?

 

No it isn't fella. They all do those things but Smalley doesn't. I don't want to get into a "yes he does - no he doesn't", pointless waste of debate, but just watch the rest of the season and actually focus on Smalley. You will not see him beat people - in fact if he does Message me, and if you can say it hand on heart three times then I'll buy you a beer.

 

Colbeck is too lightweight, but Smalley beats himself just as often as JC is dispossessed. If given a run with the ball I guarantee that he'll trip over it more often than not.

[LaticsPete]

Nothing to do with the fact he was playing upfront yesterday and not on the wing.

 

 

or that he still didn't go past anyone. Classic example in first half - ran into the box from the wing , had one player to beat, tried to go past him, lost the ball and ended up diving.

I'd love him to be succesful , but this season he has been very disappointing.

Edited January 3, 2010 by LaticsPete

[OldhamSheridan]

or that he still didn't go past anyone. Classic example in first half - ran into the box from the wing , had one player to beat, tried to go past him, lost the ball and ended up diving.

I'd love him to be succesful , but this season he has been very disappointing.

 

I'll throw my hat in the BBRM camp here.

 

Smalley's problem is he can't cross the ball. He can run very quickly and dribble it. He's got the ability to beat a man in a Paul Edwards kind of way. He just needs to improve the final product.

 

 

Obviously trying to come up with something he should do as a winger when he is playing centre forward is a bit of a daft ask.

[garcon]

blah blah

It is an inevitability on a football forum like this that one must get used to reading posts made by people who evidently know absolutely nothing about the game and have either never been to a match and watched it properly or were too p*ssed or cold (or stupid) to concentrate when they were there.

 

However, you my friend take the biscuit. Every single post you make about football - whether it be tactics or players or both - has me utterly and profoundly baffled.