real Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 OK I'll ask you again, where's your evidence you claim to have based your opinion on. You've not yet said apart from back tracking and saying no evidence could possibly exist currently. I've clearly indicated where I get my opinion that there will be no ground at the BP site. It came from the horses mouth (Simon Corney) and official communications on the website that the redevelopment of BP was now no longer viable and will not happen. I may just ask Paul Whitehead whether he knows if there will not be a ground at BP given he as invited myself to have a chat with him. Now if he says there won't be one what will your opinion be then? Now if you were the salesman sat in the development cabin would you want to know if you can clearly tell the potential buyers if a ground will shadow their new house? You asked where is the evidence that it WILL happen. I said there's none to that degree of proof. There'ss plenty of evidence that points to it happening (a subtle difference from "it will happen"); that evidence being plans, council support, statements - that is what I've based my opinion on. What a saleman tells anyone is down to common sense. There is no guarantee to any buyer that there will not be a football ground on sheepfoot lane. That could only be guaranteed once it's gone. As I say, why don't you ask someone if the stuff is being built on the Promise (or vow, or guarantee or whatever) that there will be no ground there or on the Assumption that there will be no ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Because the two cases have no similarities after a sporting club wishing to move grounds. Agreed. But we mustn't let facts get in the way of a drama queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 You asked where is the evidence that it WILL happen. I said there's none to that degree of proof. There'ss plenty of evidence that points to it happening (a subtle difference from "it will happen"); that evidence being plans, council support, statements - that is what I've based my opinion on. What a saleman tells anyone is down to common sense. There is no guarantee to any buyer that there will not be a football ground on sheepfoot lane. That could only be guaranteed once it's gone. As I say, why don't you ask someone if the stuff is being built on the Promise (or vow, or guarantee or whatever) that there will be no ground there or on the Assumption that there will be no ground. Would them be the same type of plans that exist for BP redevelopment? ermm no they aint even them yet cos we aint submitted any! Anyway had enough now. It's just my opinion based on the evidence of history and more U turns than an Italian general. The thing is Real, you not stupid yet you blindly back those who let you down time after time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Because the two cases have no similarities after a sporting club wishing to move grounds. Besides of course... OMBC involvement and putting all your eggs in one basket based on a dream... No but lets not let facts get in the way... real, coco and LaticsPete... the dream team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Besides of course... OMBC involvement and putting all your eggs in one basket based on a dream... No but lets not let facts get in the way... real, coco and LaticsPete... the dream team... Oldham council involvement also helped provide bigger and better facilities for the Athletics club after losing their home at Westwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creepy Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Oldham council involvement also helped provide bigger and better facilities for the Athletics club after losing their home at Westwood. Oldham Council involvement almost finished off ORLFC also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 (edited) Besides of course... OMBC involvement and putting all your eggs in one basket based on a dream... No but lets not let facts get in the way... real, coco and LaticsPete... the dream team... Hey such wit. What are you then the doom team? so, anyway enough if the witty banter, tell me something oafc0000; how would you propose to build a new stadium WITHOUT OMBC being involved? Unless you think it should be outside the borough of Oldham? Doh! And to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket, would you advocate having 2 entirely separate stadium plans in 2 different locations, and making simoultaneous progress on both? Edited March 6, 2010 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 (edited) Hey such wit. What are you then the doom team? so, anyway enough if the witty banter, tell me something oafc0000; how would you propose to build a new stadium WITHOUT OMBC being involved? Unless you think it should be outside the borough of Oldham? Doh! And to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket, would you advocate having 2 entirely separate stadium plans in 2 different locations, and making simoultaneous progress on both? All that is being suggested is we finalise the availability of the Failsworth land first.. Is that really so much to ask ? Edited March 6, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 All that is being suggested is we finalise the availability of the Failsworth land first.. Is that really so much to ask ? Why? We can re-develop BP or move to Failsworth. These developments do not change those options. Are you suggesting we should wait, wait, wait? IF Failsworth could not go ahead, we would have to either look again at BP or find another site. The housing does not rule out the former. I just don't understand what the big issue is here and how exactly it relates to failsworth. Why does nothing ever get done in Oldham? Is it a combination of people who always see the negative and people who can't accomodate any degree of uncertainty at all (even if it's virtually non-existant)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 Why? We can re-develop BP or move to Failsworth. These developments do not change those options. Are you suggesting we should wait, wait, wait? Yes we can either re-develop BP or move to Failsworth... What makes NO sense is to build the type of houses they are doing next to BP IF the stadium will still be there. Which means IF Failsworth does not happen what does that leave us with ? Last word on this now... Nothing will every get through to you about the possibly disastrous outcome from all this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 What makes NO sense is to build the type of houses they are doing next to BP IF the stadium will still be there. Which means IF Failsworth does not happen what does that leave us with ? It leaves us with a site than we can still build a new stadium on. What is the problem with that? Given that the development we are talking about here is on the sheepfoot car park it's got virtually no impact at all on any possible new stadium at BP. Even the houses on the Exec car park do not stop BP being re-developed, especially when you consider that most advocates of a new BP ask for a new Lookers stand that is of a good size, and that the main stand would be restricted by it's footprint regardless of anything else. there would still be room to build a new chaddy if really necessary, but it would probably never be needed. It does leave the people with houses somewhere they might not want to be, but all of that wouod have been covered in their searches when they bought them. You're right about not getting through about the "disastrous outcome"; principally because it doesn't exist. Final Score Doom Team 0: Dream Team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted March 6, 2010 Author Share Posted March 6, 2010 It leaves us with a site than we can still build a new stadium on. What is the problem with that? Given that the development we are talking about here is on the sheepfoot car park it's got virtually no impact at all on any possible new stadium at BP. Even the houses on the Exec car park do not stop BP being re-developed, especially when you consider that most advocates of a new BP ask for a new Lookers stand that is of a good size, and that the main stand would be restricted by it's footprint regardless of anything else. there would still be room to build a new chaddy if really necessary, but it would probably never be needed. It does leave the people with houses somewhere they might not want to be, but all of that wouod have been covered in their searches when they bought them. You're right about not getting through about the "disastrous outcome"; principally because it doesn't exist. Final Score Doom Team 0: Dream Team 1 Damn! Missed it, who scored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes we can either re-develop BP or move to Failsworth... What makes NO sense is to build the type of houses they are doing next to BP IF the stadium will still be there. Which means IF Failsworth does not happen what does that leave us with ? Last word on this now... Nothing will every get through to you about the possibly disastrous outcome from all this... doesnt impact on bp one bit.the owners are breaking up the whole site in retrospect pieces,one part to houses one part to flats etc to help the hospital,not got one problem with it in them selling the land to bring in cash... once building work commences no doubt they will be plugging them,but anybody who knows the area knows the club is there.. lets face it,if failsworth falls through for whatever reason...all the owners have to do is build the new main stand with the facilites inside like they said and that will make us self sufficient,take the roof off the chaddy and put a new one on and that would do....and we stay in our or most peoples preffered place. if people buy a house next to the club thats there look out not the clubs,they have a choice at the end of the day. cant see what all the fuss and hissy fits are about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 doesnt impact on bp one bit.the owners are breaking up the whole site in retrospect pieces,one part to houses one part to flats etc to help the hospital,not got one problem with it in them selling the land to bring in cash... once building work commences no doubt they will be plugging them,but anybody who knows the area knows the club is there.. lets face it,if failsworth falls through for whatever reason...all the owners have to do is build the new main stand with the facilites inside like they said and that will make us self sufficient,take the roof off the chaddy and put a new one on and that would do....and we stay in our or most peoples preffered place. if people buy a house next to the club thats there look out not the clubs,they have a choice at the end of the day. cant see what all the fuss and hissy fits are about Roll on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 (edited) doesnt impact on bp one bit.the owners are breaking up the whole site in retrospect pieces,one part to houses one part to flats etc to help the hospital,not got one problem with it in them selling the land to bring in cash... once building work commences no doubt they will be plugging them,but anybody who knows the area knows the club is there.. lets face it,if failsworth falls through for whatever reason...all the owners have to do is build the new main stand with the facilites inside like they said and that will make us self sufficient,take the roof off the chaddy and put a new one on and that would do....and we stay in our or most peoples preffered place. if people buy a house next to the club thats there look out not the clubs,they have a choice at the end of the day. cant see what all the fuss and hissy fits are about You really do not get the point being made... But anyway, have TTA indicated at all the they are happy to build a new main stand for us ? You claim we would be self-sufficient with just the addition of a main stand, do you have anything to back this up ? If true why is there an empty space where the lookers once stood ? And if true, why are we being told that Failsworth is the ONLY other option... Answers on a post card... Every time over the last year that I have suggested there is another alternative the dream team keep telling me I am wrong... Edited March 7, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 You really do not get the point being made... But anyway, have TTA indicated at all the they are happy to build a new main stand for us ? You claim we would be self-sufficient with just the addition of a main stand, do you have anything to back this up ? If true why is there an empty space where the lookers once stood ? And if true, why are we being told that Failsworth is the ONLY other option... Answers on a post card... Every time over the last year that I have suggested there is another alternative the dream team keep telling me I am wrong... how can you be wrong(shudders at the thought) of course there is always the option of staying at bp,always has been as far as the vast majority is concerned. its failsworth or bust for the current owners,they want as much as there money back as possible,so by doing failsworth they recoup the money by selling off bp site as and when land prices rise,by building failsworth they will be able to pull in grants left right and centre to ease the financial burden on them and the club. the only thing i can back it up with,is the fact that when they proposed stadium oldham or the oldham arena,they said that the first phase was to develop the land behind the rre for key worker housing and a few other things,and build the new main stand,which would house conferencing and office space etc etc,once this was built it would pay for the remainder of the build in stages,and once total build was complete would pay for itself.... ask the vast majority of fans on here or around the area who are latics fans...if you were a multi millionaire and bought the club,what would you do to keep the fans happy and improve the team...99% would say stay at bp,build a new stand put a new roof on the chaddy and invest in the team....not drag us screaming and kicking 4 miles down the road just to get your money back. unfortunatlet most or all of us are not in that position and have very little if no choice in the matter...if the owners move the club they move it,if people dont want to continue following the team thats there choice.it really is that simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) I don't have any problem with the planning application that may or may not go into the council for the stadium to go up at the Failsworth site. I hope it does and I hope it's built. You said you've weighed up the evidence and made up your mind due to it. Now you've said there is no evidence....you dead right there's no evidence Failsworth will see the light of day. My problem is this, we gained planning on the BP site for houses, flats and a stadium. Now it's been made perfectly clear the stadium is a none starter on BP but the houses and flats will still be built. Indeed as we type the developer as sourced their materials and ready 'to break ground' imminently on houses on the old exec car park and Clayton site. Are you telling me a developer would agree to a certain price for the land no matter if a football ground was right at it's side or not? like it would make a jot of difference to the asking price of the homes? come on please. My problem continues with the haste. Lets get our new home secured with permission before we start the building of a new plot of houses & flats on a football groundless old BP site. Like a financial venture the past is not a guide to what may happen in the future, however that ditto sure does apply to Latics and the plans that's ever been made cos the evidence currently suggests the plans never happen. I wanted evidence in the form of permission and broken ground at Failsworth prior to BP development. Personally I think that would be sensible, but then I would wouldn't I. However Real you keep spinning cos on past evidence you'll be dizzy a lot longer than I. Does this change things really. Even if BP was to be redeveloped, there was going to be housing built next to it. Also: The houses that are being built are in partnership with the club I believe rather than being sold to a developer (is this correct?). Lots of clubs have built housing right next their ground, Leyton Orient and Norwich being prime examples. There is a shortage of housing generally and even though yes a house built next to a stadium may attract a smaller fee than a house not built next to a stadium, it will still make a tidy profit anyway. Edited March 8, 2010 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Does this change things really. Even if BP was to be redeveloped, there was going to be housing built next to it. Also: The houses that are being built are in partnership with the club I believe rather than being sold to a developer (is this correct?). Lots of clubs have built housing right next their ground, Leyton Orient and Norwich being prime examples. There is a shortage of housing generally and even though yes a house built next to a stadium may attract a smaller fee than a house not built next to a stadium, it will still make a tidy profit anyway. Last time. We have been told BP will NOT be redeveloped. That Failsworth is the last and final option. From the horses mouth. Explain something to me, If you went along to the BP houses salesman and enquired about a house, would you want to know if a stadium would be shadowing your back garden or not to establish how much you are prepared to pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Given that the houses about to be built on the site the west of the ground, i.e. behind the Chaddy End and up to Little Wembley, will be finished and presumably up for sale long before work has started to demolish the ground, if I were to be thinking of buying one of them I'd be basing my offer on the ground staying put, whatever promises were made to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 (edited) Given that the houses about to be built on the site the west of the ground, i.e. behind the Chaddy End and up to Little Wembley, will be finished and presumably up for sale long before work has started to demolish the ground, if I were to be thinking of buying one of them I'd be basing my offer on the ground staying put, whatever promises were made to the contrary. Even if they put it writing? If they did I think they'd be in court if it were me. At the end of the day the horses mouth stated the ground will NOT be redeveloped and Failsworth is the last and final option. However yes I will conceed the point that the horses mouth as stated things in the past that lead to u turns later. In the case for marching on the civic centre to gain planning permission for BP redevelopment the u turn there after wasn't very long in coming. In fact it could well have been in mind as we marched. Edited March 8, 2010 by Lags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 They'd be crazy to put it in writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Then they'll get low prices. Still the owners of the new houses will then get a mega windfall when the playing surfaces becomes Boundary Avenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Last time. We have been told BP will NOT be redeveloped. That Failsworth is the last and final option. From the horses mouth. Explain something to me, If you went along to the BP houses salesman and enquired about a house, would you want to know if a stadium would be shadowing your back garden or not to establish how much you are prepared to pay for it? I’m not saying BP will be redeveloped, I’m just saying (as have others) that the current residential developments around BP are very similar to what was planned within the original plans for redeveloping. So have things actually changed? Anyway, the horse may have said it, but until the fat lady sings it, I shall just wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I’m not saying BP will be redeveloped, I’m just saying (as have others) that the current residential developments around BP are very similar to what was planned within the original plans for redeveloping. So have things actually changed? Anyway, the horse may have said it, but until the fat lady sings it, I shall just wait and see. No nothing as changed so far. The houses will be built around the BP ground (for now) otherwise the promise of 10 years of football at BP will be broken. I am not saying we WILL be ground sharing at Rochdale. What I am saying is that BP will not be redeveloped and should Failsworth fail to go ahead, I would strongly bet that Rochdale will be our rented home. Once that happens we won't do a Charlton and return home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 No nothing as changed so far. The houses will be built around the BP ground (for now) otherwise the promise of 10 years of football at BP will be broken. I am not saying we WILL be ground sharing at Rochdale. What I am saying is that BP will not be redeveloped and should Failsworth fail to go ahead, I would strongly bet that Rochdale will be our rented home. Once that happens we won't do a Charlton and return home. bp will not be redeveloped by these owners. if failsworth falls through then i can see them finally lose patience and sell up,so there is no saying any new buyer or investors wont develop bp is there.... which is what i was trying to say further up the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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