Sod it all

[c.hill12]

Well he did say his first target was 52 points. I didn't know it'd be the ONLY target this season. We're hardly on course for that are we

 

the next target will be to actuall score a goal a game on average!

[davebuckley06]

the next target will be to actuall score a goal a game on average!

 

we can only dream

[c.hill12]

we can only dream

 

a shot every game?

[UpTheLatics]

Christ, the way some on here go on, it's like Latics fans are out on their own. ALL FANS ARE THE SAME. From all clubs across the leagues. The vast majority of managers don't get time these days. That's just the way it is with the modern game.

 

One thing that hasn't changed however, is that mangers who are danger of taking a club down, get sacked. This isn't a recent development. It's always been the way. And makes perfect sense to me. DP has taken a squad that challenged the playoffs to being relegation contenders. All our players who were performing under Shez, now are not.

It's clear to me what needs to happen.

 

Penney out now.

 

Firstly, no they weren't. Most of them got slated for months. Another example of Shez being a hero now, but back then was the villain. Whether or not you wanted him out, I don't know. Secondly, the side is very much diffferent under Penney.

 

I criticise Penney a bloody well lot, but I won't have a dig at someone without backing what I say up with actual decent reasons of doing so. Those 2 excuses are bollocks in my eyes. Have a go at his style, tactics or whatever but not about how we were challenging for this, that and the othe last year when the squad is totally different.

 

I watch football to be entertained. As I've always said, we get promotion with a dull style of football, the players get a bumper new contract each, the manager gets the same, the directors and owners get money through our success, but as fans what do we get? A little limelight and some little satisfaction from bragging. We sit through boring football for a minor result at the end. I'm not prepared to do it.

 

The way I'd run a club would see Penney get more time. I can't stand how some managers get the chop instantly. But if I ran the club, I'd look for an entertaining manager, because as fans we at least know how to press fans' buttons when it comes to getting support and arses on the seats. I am, however, prepared to watch decent football no mattter where we are. Sadly, most won't... yet when we get a man in who gets results but the football is dire, they like to have a moan. We're our own worst enemy.

 

[Stitch_KTF]

Firstly, no they weren't. Most of them got slated for months. Another example of Shez being a hero now, but back then was the villain. Whether or not you wanted him out, I don't know. Secondly, the side is very much diffferent under Penney.

 

I criticise Penney a bloody well lot, but I won't have a dig at someone without backing what I say up with actual decent reasons of doing so. Those 2 excuses are bollocks in my eyes. Have a go at his style, tactics or whatever but not about how we were challenging for this, that and the othe last year when the squad is totally different.

 

I watch football to be entertained. As I've always said, we get promotion with a dull style of football, the players get a bumper new contract each, the manager gets the same, the directors and owners get money through our success, but as fans what do we get? A little limelight and some little satisfaction from bragging. We sit through boring football for a minor result at the end. I'm not prepared to do it.

 

The way I'd run a club would see Penney get more time. I can't stand how some managers get the chop instantly. But if I ran the club, I'd look for an entertaining manager, because as fans we at least know how to press fans' buttons when it comes to getting support and arses on the seats. I am, however, prepared to watch decent football no mattter where we are. Sadly, most won't... yet when we get a man in who gets results but the football is dire, they like to have a moan. We're our own worst enemy.

 

But the manager is responsible for building the squad - it's a critical aspect of the job description. Penney's management resources at least match Sheridan's but his 'output' is far less.

 

Good post otherwise.

[UpTheLatics]

But the manager is responsible for building the squad - it's a critical aspect of the job description. Penney's management resources at least match Sheridan's but his 'output' is far less.

 

Good post otherwise.

 

Perhaps, but for example, we lack/need a striker. The difference between say Abbott's weekly pay compared to Lee Hughes would be a fair gap, surely.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

But wasn't Penney brought in because we were targetting players in lower leagues, and a manager who had an eye for them, as well as a decent track record. Most people thought Penney was a refreshing choice, because we've tried others to no success. We've tried young and full of potential. We've tried experience. We've tried bring back an old hero - all have come up short. Now we've tried someone different, who knows the lower league to bring in players on less money and who can get the most out of them.

 

I'd like to see Penney give until the end of the season, see how we finish it. With a few players coming back from injury, and we finish it strongly and finding our scoring boots (tonight is a start) then he should have another crack at it next season, with the core of the team, some dead wood removed and fresh faces in. The squad as a whole isn't broken and nowhere near "The worst I've ever seen" which is the one thing I'm absolutely sick of hearing.

 

When Penney was manager of Donny, I always thought he had them playing a good style. It wasn't negative, it wasn't dull, they always looked a decent team. This season, I think we've reverted to a pretty dull format because his back has been forced against a wall. We're not scoring freely, midfielders are out of sorts so the logical thing is to keep a tight ship. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, but logically I can see what he is trying to do.

 

For the Penney out brigade, the big question is who comes in to replace him. Because it's all well and good sacking someone when we're not doing well, but it often leads to bigger downturns in form. Draft TP in? He's ruled himself out of the job and everyone knows it. Get hold of Gannon? I can't think of anyone worse to come in when our fans are so precious about a managers body language and temprament. Who else is out there? Stitch, who hasn't had a job in two years after he got sacked at Huddersfield (who were one of the poorest sides I've seen in this division when we played them shortly before he left)? See, for every 100, or even 1,000 cries of Penney Out, there's not one reasonable suggestion on how we move forward with a new manager.

 

For me, Keith Hill is the next manager I want to see at Latics and who I thought we should have got during the summer. We'll not get him now, as he has a job to finish over at Dale but next season if we're on the lookout I think he'd be achievable.

[Snookmeister]

Firstly, no they weren't. Most of them got slated for months. Another example of Shez being a hero now, but back then was the villain. Whether or not you wanted him out, I don't know. Secondly, the side is very much diffferent under Penney.

 

I criticise Penney a bloody well lot, but I won't have a dig at someone without backing what I say up with actual decent reasons of doing so. Those 2 excuses are bollocks in my eyes. Have a go at his style, tactics or whatever but not about how we were challenging for this, that and the othe last year when the squad is totally different.

 

I watch football to be entertained. As I've always said, we get promotion with a dull style of football, the players get a bumper new contract each, the manager gets the same, the directors and owners get money through our success, but as fans what do we get? A little limelight and some little satisfaction from bragging. We sit through boring football for a minor result at the end. I'm not prepared to do it.

 

The way I'd run a club would see Penney get more time. I can't stand how some managers get the chop instantly. But if I ran the club, I'd look for an entertaining manager, because as fans we at least know how to press fans' buttons when it comes to getting support and arses on the seats. I am, however, prepared to watch decent football no mattter where we are. Sadly, most won't... yet when we get a man in who gets results but the football is dire, they like to have a moan. We're our own worst enemy.

I'm not in any way holding Shez up as a hero now. I still think it was the right decision to let him go when we did. But even when we were on the slide towards the back end of his reign, the likes of Taylor, Smalley and Hazell were still performing better than they have been this season (and it was to these particular players whom I was referring). I know Taylor and Smalley have had their injury issues this season, but even when fit have been shadows of their former selves.

 

A total reversal tonight, where it was good shows all round and flashes of former quality. But it was just one display. Carry on in the same vein for the rest of the season and I'll happily get out the recipe for humble pie. Until then we shall see.....

Edited March 9, 2010 by Snookmeister

[beag_teeets]

But wasn't Penney brought in because we were targetting players in lower leagues, and a manager who had an eye for them, as well as a decent track record. Most people thought Penney was a refreshing choice, because we've tried others to no success. We've tried young and full of potential. We've tried experience. We've tried bring back an old hero - all have come up short. Now we've tried someone different, who knows the lower league to bring in players on less money and who can get the most out of them.

 

I'd like to see Penney give until the end of the season, see how we finish it. With a few players coming back from injury, and we finish it strongly and finding our scoring boots (tonight is a start) then he should have another crack at it next season, with the core of the team, some dead wood removed and fresh faces in. The squad as a whole isn't broken and nowhere near "The worst I've ever seen" which is the one thing I'm absolutely sick of hearing.

 

When Penney was manager of Donny, I always thought he had them playing a good style. It wasn't negative, it wasn't dull, they always looked a decent team. This season, I think we've reverted to a pretty dull format because his back has been forced against a wall. We're not scoring freely, midfielders are out of sorts so the logical thing is to keep a tight ship. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, but logically I can see what he is trying to do.

 

For the Penney out brigade, the big question is who comes in to replace him. Because it's all well and good sacking someone when we're not doing well, but it often leads to bigger downturns in form. Draft TP in? He's ruled himself out of the job and everyone knows it. Get hold of Gannon? I can't think of anyone worse to come in when our fans are so precious about a managers body language and temprament. Who else is out there? Stitch, who hasn't had a job in two years after he got sacked at Huddersfield (who were one of the poorest sides I've seen in this division when we played them shortly before he left)? See, for every 100, or even 1,000 cries of Penney Out, there's not one reasonable suggestion on how we move forward with a new manager.

 

For me, Keith Hill is the next manager I want to see at Latics and who I thought we should have got during the summer. We'll not get him now, as he has a job to finish over at Dale but next season if we're on the lookout I think he'd be achievable.

 

I want Penney to be given the length of his contract, can't remember if that is to the end of next season or the one after. Fully agree with your assessment of this season and want to see how next season goes once we get the clean slate of the summer, players will have bedded in, know what is expected and with a few well placed additions, a recharge of the batteries we should be up the right end of the table.

[Stitch_KTF]

Perhaps, but for example, we lack/need a striker. The difference between say Abbott's weekly pay compared to Lee Hughes would be a fair gap, surely.

 

If that's the case then it's Penney's fault for spending too much elsewhere (largely on full-back's and central midfielders where, as it so happens, Sheridan 'signings for the future' are now staring anyway). He has just as big a pot of money to play with as Sheridan did.

 

Granted that Sheridan had the unusual luxury of Hughes for just a reported £1600 per week, but then it was apparently his 'baggage' that went a long way to costing him his job. Remember Shez was also paying Gregan more money, though I suppose that is to Penney's credit.

 

It's all swings and roundabouts. With finances dictating more than ever managers can only be judged and compared by their budgets and how said budgets measure up to that of the competition. Penney's and Sheridan's budgets are the same or, to quote Corney, "If anything Penney's is a little larger" (cue leeslover). This is at a time when typical club budgets and player wages are reportedly falling following the global financial crisis and it's impacts.

 

Despite his obvious imperfections and sketchy loan-market record, Sheridan did well enough that he had us fans taking promotion pushes on a shoestring for granted, and was consequently sacked on the back of a bad run which followed a run so good that we were still as high as 7th. A victim of his own success.

 

Another thought that came to mind last night as I looked around at the 3200 crowd was whether we really did have a 5000 hardcore these last few seasons. Could it be that the 'hardcore' was the 3500 it is today with an extra 1500 turning up to watch a team playing decent football up in the top third of the table under a legend as opposed to a journeyman?

[RoytonBlueLad]

Remember Shez was also paying Gregan more money, though I suppose that is to Penney's credit.

 

Thing is, if that Rehman who we wanted had come here then I doubt we'd have got Greegs back. We seemed to look around, get rejected by a couple and go back to Gregan.

[singe]

If that's the case then it's Penney's fault for spending too much elsewhere (largely on full-back's and central midfielders where, as it so happens, Sheridan 'signings for the future' are now staring anyway). He has just as big a pot of money to play with as Sheridan did.

 

Granted that Sheridan had the unusual luxury of Hughes for just a reported £1600 per week, but then it was apparently his 'baggage' that went a long way to costing him his job. Remember Shez was also paying Gregan more money, though I suppose that is to Penney's credit.

 

It's all swings and roundabouts. With finances dictating more than ever managers can only be judged and compared by their budgets and how said budgets measure up to that of the competition. Penney's and Sheridan's budgets are the same or, to quote Corney, "If anything Penney's is a little larger" (cue leeslover). This is at a time when typical club budgets and player wages are reportedly falling following the global financial crisis and it's impacts.

 

Despite his obvious imperfections and sketchy loan-market record, Sheridan did well enough that he had us fans taking promotion pushes on a shoestring for granted, and was consequently sacked on the back of a bad run which followed a run so good that we were still as high as 7th. A victim of his own success.

 

Another thought that came to mind last night as I looked around at the 3200 crowd was whether we really did have a 5000 hardcore these last few seasons. Could it be that the 'hardcore' was the 3500 it is today with an extra 1500 turning up to watch a team playing decent football up in the top third of the table under a legend as opposed to a journeyman?

All good points, as always. And I do agree with most of it. In truth, I think you have a point about the hardcore 3,500 and the rest turning up for the glory we might have achieved.

In fact the figures LL (& L&E) got potentiallly back that up. as it is a 50/50 split of season ticket and pay on the day.

 

THe only issue is your last point. We, almost unanimously, agreed that shez's team were bottlers, that they should all be got rid of, they had let shez down, and wer exactly that. a team full of journeymen

Lets compare attendances, for this month midweek against Souherners.

We cannot in March, 2 weeks prior

Tue 24 Feb 2009 Bristol Rovers H League L 0-2 3,745

Given our position at the time is worse IMHO. We were 4th going into that game

[Stitch_KTF]

All good points, as always. And I do agree with most of it. In truth, I think you have a point about the hardcore 3,500 and the rest turning up for the glory we might have achieved.

In fact the figures LL (& L&E) got potentiallly back that up. as it is a 50/50 split of season ticket and pay on the day.

 

THe only issue is your last point. We, almost unanimously, agreed that shez's team were bottlers, that they should all be got rid of, they had let shez down, and wer exactly that. a team full of journeymen

Lets compare attendances, for this month midweek against Souherners.

We cannot in March, 2 weeks prior

Tue 24 Feb 2009 Bristol Rovers H League L 0-2 3,745

Given our position at the time is worse IMHO. We were 4th going into that game

 

 

Interesting observation that is - it suggests to me that recent form is the most influential thing in whether or not people turn up. Remember though that last night's 3200 was for a promotional game. I imagine it could well have been sub 3000 otherwise....

[Scapegoat]

But wasn't Penney brought in because we were targetting players in lower leagues, and a manager who had an eye for them, as well as a decent track record. Most people thought Penney was a refreshing choice, because we've tried others to no success. We've tried young and full of potential. We've tried experience. We've tried bring back an old hero - all have come up short. Now we've tried someone different, who knows the lower league to bring in players on less money and who can get the most out of them.

 

I'd like to see Penney give until the end of the season, see how we finish it. With a few players coming back from injury, and we finish it strongly and finding our scoring boots (tonight is a start) then he should have another crack at it next season, with the core of the team, some dead wood removed and fresh faces in. The squad as a whole isn't broken and nowhere near "The worst I've ever seen" which is the one thing I'm absolutely sick of hearing.

 

When Penney was manager of Donny, I always thought he had them playing a good style. It wasn't negative, it wasn't dull, they always looked a decent team. This season, I think we've reverted to a pretty dull format because his back has been forced against a wall. We're not scoring freely, midfielders are out of sorts so the logical thing is to keep a tight ship. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, but logically I can see what he is trying to do.

 

For the Penney out brigade, the big question is who comes in to replace him. Because it's all well and good sacking someone when we're not doing well, but it often leads to bigger downturns in form. Draft TP in? He's ruled himself out of the job and everyone knows it. Get hold of Gannon? I can't think of anyone worse to come in when our fans are so precious about a managers body language and temprament. Who else is out there? Stitch, who hasn't had a job in two years after he got sacked at Huddersfield (who were one of the poorest sides I've seen in this division when we played them shortly before he left)? See, for every 100, or even 1,000 cries of Penney Out, there's not one reasonable suggestion on how we move forward with a new manager.

 

For me, Keith Hill is the next manager I want to see at Latics and who I thought we should have got during the summer. We'll not get him now, as he has a job to finish over at Dale but next season if we're on the lookout I think he'd be achievable.

 

 

 

Top post and 100% agree. Have post similar sentiments on a few occassions.

[Scapegoat]

The 'Oldham boo boys' (and yes all clubs have them) have taken firmly against him. Chatting to a mate who went to Exeter - some of the chants, even if in jest, were disgraceful. If people are willing to sing that sort of thing about him, then can he ever change their mind?

 

 

However, football fans are fickle. I thought last night was the 3rd reasonable home performance in a row at home, and 6 points from 9 (with the defeat against the top side in the division). The next 3 fixtures could see a similar/better return from similar performances. Confidence from results, means players want the ball and want to shoot more which should see an increase in the goals scored.

 

We can argue all day about the relative merits/abilities of the opposition, but if by the time we play Southampton away, we have 45 points, and the 'fans' have seen 4 wins on the bounce - then the fickleness will shine through and opinions will change. Enough to prevent a Ronnie Moore type ST purchase rate? We will have to see.

[thelaticsfan]

very good points here and glad we all stayed away from the argument of "because i said so!"

 

to me, the reason we are so low in the division is because we are yet to play a lot of the teams around us, there has been a lot of injuries and the division is a lot harder this year,

 

i think around mid table if we stayed injury free would have been fair but with the injuries we had this season about 13-15 is about right which im sure we can look at now the hard fixtures are out of the window and we get to play a few easier teams