Stockport Post Game Thread

[slurms mckenzie]

For those that question whether things can get any better under Dave Penny next season - I would imagine that supporters of other teams that had bad seasons before the manager 'got it right' felt the same.

 

With the recent improvement in results DP is looking unlikely to "take us down" as many on here stated. Also it looks as though we may survive more easily than in previous seasons in this division, but people on this thread have said "its the worst team they have ever seen".

 

There are genuine attempts to pass the ball on the floor and build from the back, and in some of the recent home games the ability to keep posession and move it round the park looking for an opening has been encouraging.

 

We will then probably watch him be successful elsewhere.

 

And, unless a 'fans favourite', the new manager will get no time at all before the cries of "he'll take us down", "tactically inept", "worst team I have ever seen" will be heard and read.

 

And who would want to come? I can see the queue forming now down Sheepfoot lane as potential mananger see the "opporunity" to go to a falling down stadium, with poor negative crowds, where you are hounded out of your position by the "supporters" before you have had chance to really make the changes you wanted to.

 

People on here talk about wanting to give up on Latics at the moment, and have never felt that way. I am not there yet, but it is the growing nature of our fans not the team that would make me feel like that.

 

I have watched, and will watch awful football as a football fan - I accept that as part of 'being a supporter'. Listening to chants about going to your managers funeral.....not sure I can accept being part of that community.

 

Given the circumstances, this is the worst latics team I've ever seen since we came down to this increasingly godawful division. The fact is, Penney has signed 20+ players and the majority have been either unfit for task or competent at best. Staying up is nothing to be proud of, with the standard of the opposition this season worse than I have seen it in my lifetime.

 

As for the football, I guess different people see games differently, but I have never seen a team with so little attacking ambition. This is evidenced in the pathetically low shots on goal game after game. No way will Penney "get it right" next season, not unless he has a complete change of outlook on the game.

 

Penney is the first manager ever that has turned me off latics. I can't even be arsed going to some of the home games, that’s how bad it has gone, and as you know, I'm a season ticket holder. That doesn't make me any less of a fan than anyone else; but I refuse to accept some of the gash that has been played for us this season as acceptable.

 

The comments regarding who would want to come to latics due to the "falling down stadium" and "poor negative crowds", is due to the ineptitude and mismanagement of TTA and their predecessors. The writing was on the wall that our stadium was going to degenerate into the three-sided dump it is now, when they decided not to fix the scoreboard.

 

As for the managers funeral comment, maybe you don't watch a lot of footy on the TV. The funeral song is one nicked from United fans about the glazers, maybe a bit distasteful, but hardly enough for mock disgust. I've heard a lot worse both from and to latics fans.

 

I'm afraid that the number of fans we've lost since the first game of the season against Stockport prove my points. People are pig sick of being treated like idiots by a team full of disinterested journeymen in a ground that has been decimated. Even Rochdale's ground is better than ours.

 

Loyal latics fans have been driven away from the club, lads who used to follow the team home and away don't even bother anymore apart from the odd jolly away from home, but that's more for the beer than the football. I don't think most fans want Penney out, more worringly, most dont seem to give a sh1t.

Edited March 17, 2010 by slurms mckenzie

[Scapegoat]

Last season promotion challenge...

 

This season relegation battle...

 

Same budget... Different manager...

 

The difference is telling...

 

Lies, damn lies and statistics I say.

 

In the last 2 months of the "promotion challenge" season we secure a total of 8 points from a potential 36 on offer (a return of 22%). This was under the tenure of 2 different managers. This resulted in a slip from a challenging 3rd position to out of sorts 10th spot, and 11 points of the last play-off spot.

 

All change as another manager comes in and we re-gig the squad.

 

First 2 months sees a return of 8 from 30 points (26%), and this doesn't really improve Oct-Dec with 10 from 36 (27%). Finally Jan-present has seen 15 from 39 (38%).

 

 

So you could say that last season would have been a relegation battle based on the performance of the last quarter of the season. Dave Penny did not turn that around from Day One, but the last few months have started to show improvements. Is it reasonable to see what sort of return he might be getting with another 40+ games?

[Scapegoat]

Given the circumstances, this is the worst latics team I've ever seen since we came down to this increasingly godawful division. The fact is, Penney has signed 20+ players and the majority have been either unfit for task or competent at best. Staying up is nothing to be proud of, with the standard of the opposition this season worse than I have seen it in my lifetime.

 

As for the football, I guess different people see games differently, but I have never seen a team with so little attacking ambition. This is evidenced in the pathetically low shots on goal game after game. No way will Penney "get it right" next season, not unless he has a complete change of outlook on the game.

 

Penney is the first manager ever that has turned me off latics. I can't even be arsed going to some of the home games, that’s how bad it has gone, and as you know, I'm a season ticket holder. That doesn't make me any less of a fan than anyone else; but I refuse to accept some of the gash that has been played for us this season as acceptable.

 

The comments regarding who would want to come to latics due to the "falling down stadium" and "poor negative crowds", is due to the ineptitude and mismanagement of TTA and their predecessors. The writing was on the wall that our stadium was going to degenerate into the three-sided dump it is now, when they decided not to fix the scoreboard.

 

As for the managers funeral comment, maybe you don't watch a lot of footy on the TV. The funeral song is one nicked from United fans about the glazers, maybe a bit distasteful, but hardly enough for mock disgust. I've heard a lot worse both from and to latics fans.

 

I'm afraid that the number of fans we've lost since the first game of the season against Stockport prove my points. People are pig sick of being treated like idiots by a team full of disinterested journeymen in a ground that has been decimated. Even Rochdale's ground is better than ours.

 

Loyal latics fans have been driven away from the club, lads who used to follow the team home and away don't even bother anymore apart from the odd jolly away from home, but that's more for the beer than the football. I don't think most fans want Penney out, more worringly, most dont seem to give a sh1t.

 

Thanks for the comments - I don't agree with them, but that is the essence of forums and opinions.

 

However the funeral comment was not mock disgust - its genuine. The fact that 'other people do it' is not a defence of unacceptable behaviour in my opinion - Boo, sing "We want Penny Out" if you must, but treat people with a little more respect.

 

[Scapegoat]

Penney is the first manager ever that has turned me off latics...

 

And I know that is NOT true. I have heard you threaten to cancel your season ticket the following season a number of times over the last few years....

Edited March 17, 2010 by Scapegoat

[tangerinedreams]

What do you expect? I think we've scored from 1 corner all season, possibly 2. The only decent corner taker we have wasn't playing so we were going to be even worse at corners than we have been since Eyres retired.

 

There is no safer place for the oppos to put the ball against us than in the corner.

 

 

 

Something that requires working on the beaq don't you agree? 7 crossed landing potentially on the penalty spot..... At least one of them has to go in.... doesn't it

 

However, if all but 2 players are in the penalty area what chance to we have

[oafc0000]

So you could say that last season would have been a relegation battle based on the performance of the last quarter of the season.

 

And this season a promotion challenge based off the last four game...

 

Alas there are many more games in a season...

[beag_teeets]

I fully agree that is should be worked on but then again how many teams actually do well from corners? Beckham can take a good corner, so can Henry, Lumpard and Gerrard aren't too bad but after that I can't think of that many.

 

I still wince whenever we give away a corner but nothing usually comes of it, same as when we get one I think something will happen but over the time I have been watching Latics, Wright, Holden, Pointon and Eyres are the only ones I can think of that could genuinely put in a decent corner.

 

A lot more to it I know, when we had Trotman we were a threat so it isn't just the person taking it, the rest of the team have to be alive. Is it worth devoting much time in training that may otherwise be spent on a few more basic things that we also seem to get consistently wrong? Throw-ins for example, I can't ever remember us being any good at these. Not the Rory Delap type rockets, the bog standard just chuck it to the man in blue 3 yards away without it hitting his chest with an awkward bounce meaning his first touch has to control the ball rather than being able to move it on.

[tangerinedreams]

I fully agree that is should be worked on but then again how many teams actually do well from corners? Beckham can take a good corner, so can Henry, Lumpard and Gerrard aren't too bad but after that I can't think of that many.

 

I still wince whenever we give away a corner but nothing usually comes of it, same as when we get one I think something will happen but over the time I have been watching Latics, Wright, Holden, Pointon and Eyres are the only ones I can think of that could genuinely put in a decent corner.

 

A lot more to it I know, when we had Trotman we were a threat so it isn't just the person taking it, the rest of the team have to be alive. Is it worth devoting much time in training that may otherwise be spent on a few more basic things that we also seem to get consistently wrong? Throw-ins for example, I can't ever remember us being any good at these. Not the Rory Delap type rockets, the bog standard just chuck it to the man in blue 3 yards away without it hitting his chest with an awkward bounce meaning his first touch has to control the ball rather than being able to move it on.

 

 

 

What you have just said there though is back to basics, we are talking about professional footballers here, unless we have someone who can lauch it like Delap, does it spoil the beautiful game? imo no it doesn't, I love seeing the opposing teams keeper and defence panicking, trying to deal with it. Corners and free kicks are set pieces and should be perfected, a corner is as good as an indirect free kick and should be treated as a set piece and not as a hit n hope, inevitably nobody on the D, a la Scholes/ Lamps, the only thing happening when there are only 2 players in the box is that the opposing team find counter attacking harder, it would'nt be made much easier if there were to be 5 in the box with 1 hovering in/ around the D, blocking the counter or getting on the end of a stray to blast it goal bound, rather just wasted chances.

[Scapegoat]

And this season a promotion challenge based off the last four game...

 

Alas there are many more games in a season...

 

Perhaps, but I think the end of the last season is generally accepted as a bit of a disaster and that therefore claims that Penny inherited a promotion chasing team are perhaps stretching it.

 

If the current team pick up another 9 points out the next 4 games then that would be a longish run by which to more confidently claim a genuine improvement in form than I (or anyone else) can at the moment.

[slystallone]

I fully agree that is should be worked on but then again how many teams actually do well from corners? Beckham can take a good corner, so can Henry, Lumpard and Gerrard aren't too bad but after that I can't think of that many.

 

I still wince whenever we give away a corner but nothing usually comes of it, same as when we get one I think something will happen but over the time I have been watching Latics, Wright, Holden, Pointon and Eyres are the only ones I can think of that could genuinely put in a decent corner.

 

A lot more to it I know, when we had Trotman we were a threat so it isn't just the person taking it, the rest of the team have to be alive. Is it worth devoting much time in training that may otherwise be spent on a few more basic things that we also seem to get consistently wrong? Throw-ins for example, I can't ever remember us being any good at these. Not the Rory Delap type rockets, the bog standard just chuck it to the man in blue 3 yards away without it hitting his chest with an awkward bounce meaning his first touch has to control the ball rather than being able to move it on.

 

 

Me and my mate have been saying that for years - pretty much as you've said it above. I cannot believe that Warnock; Sharpe, Ritchie, Wadsworth, Dowie, Talbort, Moore, Shez and now Penney have all failed to address and solve this problem. Bar the odd times when we've had a player with a long throw (Will Haining & Ratters spring to mind immediately), our throw-ins have been woeful. We have no movement; nobody showing for it; nobody making space......

Along with our sub-standard work from dead-balls too; we are absolutely no threat from set pieces whatsoever; but we've been like that for years. Quite why; I have no idea why someone hasn't solved it by now.

 

As for last night; I didn't go as I knew what type of game it would be and what type of performance would be on show & TBH I'm now saving what was once my 'away game cash' for other things these days. The only thing keeping me watching the home games is the fact that I've already shelled out on the season ticket. We are a poor side; managed by a poor manager; producing woeful football with no entertainment offered whatsoever.

Its a 'good' 3 points in the scheme of things; but as many have said - should we be expected to shout from the rooftops about beating 10 man County; the worst side in the division; 1 nil?

 

Awful season of football; that will continue next season too with DP at the helm. But; being brutal, a new manager would be taking on one hell of a project here too.......

 

Bad times......

[opinions4u]

Stockport fan mate said "other than County, Oldham are the worst side I've seen at Edgeley Park this season".

 

He also said it was defo a pen, and the guy sent off was their "Gregan" - so 3 shots on target including one from the spot and one in injury time really doesn't show Latics in a good light.

[rudemedic]

Me and my mate have been saying that for years - pretty much as you've said it above. I cannot believe that Warnock; Sharpe, Ritchie, Wadsworth, Dowie, Talbort, Moore, Shez and now Penney have all failed to address and solve this problem. Bar the odd times when we've had a player with a long throw (Will Haining & Ratters spring to mind immediately), our throw-ins have been woeful. We have no movement; nobody showing for it; nobody making space......

Along with our sub-standard work from dead-balls too; we are absolutely no threat from set pieces whatsoever; but we've been like that for years. Quite why; I have no idea why someone hasn't solved it by now.

 

Throw ins have been an issue for ages for me. We are bloody naff at them. You don't need to have a Rory Delap in your team to be dangerous at throw-ins, its what 25-30 yards from the touch line to the six yard box at BP. I reckon quite a few of us could throw it that far (I'd definately fancy may chances- I used to be a hooker in rugby union). Delap can throw it about 40-45 yards so he's dangerous from quite a distance away.

 

Its not just the long-throw we've been missing we ain't very good at getting the ball thrown in and no one seems capable of throwing it over someone to someone else. Not to mention the fact that we are definately not the best at defending throw ins either.

[Snookmeister]

Stockport fan mate said "other than County, Oldham are the worst side I've seen at Edgeley Park this season".

 

He also said it was defo a pen, and the guy sent off was their "Gregan" - so 3 shots on target including one from the spot and one in injury time really doesn't show Latics in a good light.

But hey! That doesn't matter! We got three points that means all our woes are over, we'll play like 1970's Brazil for the rest of the season!! We will y'know. Especially because DP's gonna be manager of the year after just having beaten mighty County using his tactical genius. Form means nothing!! EE AYE EE AYE EE AYE OH......

[oafc0000]

Perhaps, but I think the end of the last season is generally accepted as a bit of a disaster and that therefore claims that Penny inherited a promotion chasing team are perhaps stretching it.

 

 

DP did not inherit a promotion chasing side... He did inherit the same budget Shez built a promotion chasing side on...

[LaticsPete]

At Chesterfield Sheridan has inherited a team and a bigger budget than last year.

Edited March 17, 2010 by LaticsPete

[futchers briefs]

But hey! That doesn't matter! We got three points that means all our woes are over, we'll play like 1970's Brazil for the rest of the season!! We will y'know. Especially because DP's gonna be manager of the year after just having beaten mighty County using his tactical genius. Form means nothing!! EE AYE EE AYE EE AYE OH......

Mis-directed sarcasm.

Not 1 single Latics fan (that i'm aware of anyway?!?) would dare suggest that we play like Brazil 70s, as for the DP manager of the year, mighty County - get a grip - again, not 1 fan has said we played well last night, it was a great game against a good side - All those wjo went will agree it was the opposite.

However, what some fans have said, is that given the position we find ourselves in, from a fans and teams point of view - 3 points last night was massive and we got it, no delusion or rose coloured specs, just hard fact. Still more points are needed and for the rest of the season that is what it is all about now.

[LeylandLatic]

DP did not inherit a promotion chasing side... He did inherit the same budget Shez built a promotion chasing side on...

 

 

Were we really threatening promotion last season? Had the hard work putting the side together been done over the 2 years previous? How long has DP had to build his team? Is the standard of the division this year higher than that in Shez's last season?

[del boy]

At Chesterfield Sheridan has inherited a team and a bigger budget than last year.

bollocks

[OldhamSheridan]

At Chesterfield Sheridan has inherited a team and a bigger budget than last year.

 

Has he, or is that a popular misconception? The Cheaterfield fan on here seemed to think he was given three tenths of f all.

 

 

To be honest, the Sheridan question really isn't what he should do now in terms of results. I hope it is good as i like him, but the point most against his sacking said was that he should have had until the end of the season. Anyone that thinks different is wronger than a wrong thing on wrong day - a point proven (IMO) by our results following him leaving.

 

Penney has not had a dab hand dealt to him. He's just played it bloody awful entertainmentwise. I don't expect anything tic-tacally to change next year, his previous says it won't. But I can't think we can sack him for being around where the club should finish.

[LeylandLatic]

At Chesterfield Sheridan has inherited a team and a bigger budget than last year.

 

I'm not sure what the team Shez inherited there was like, but no doubting he has been given a very good budget for that division.

 

Penney has a fairly average budget for this one I would say and inherited a team that was falling apart and lost it's biggest (possibly only) goal threat.

[nava]

Penney has a fairly average budget for this one I would say and inherited a team that was falling apart and lost it's biggest (possibly only) goal threat.

 

Thats a pretty fair point. He was also given every new managers wish an entire pre season to get his players in and the majority of players from that team being out of contract so he could start afresh.

[LeylandLatic]

Thats a pretty fair point. He was also given every new managers wish an entire pre season to get his players in and the majority of players from that team being out of contract so he could start afresh.

 

 

Yep, he's made some mistakes, 'no doubt about that', Hughes was so important to the team last year though.

[oafc0000]

Were we really threatening promotion last season?

 

Maybe you didn't take a look at the league table for most of the season... or you want to rewrite history.... but yes, it is a fact...

 

Had the hard work putting the side together been done over the 2 years previous?

 

He was fighting for promotion those other two seasons as well... Where have you been ? In a cave ?

 

How long has DP had to build his team? Is the standard of the division this year higher than that in Shez's last season?

 

One of the reasons given for sacking shez when they did was to give the new manager to have the whole summery to prepare. Great job...

 

I would accept it it a bit stronger with Norwich and Southampton...

Edited March 18, 2010 by oafc0000

[RoytonBlueLad]

Saints came in on -10 and Norwich are this years Leicester. Pretty much like for like.

[LeylandLatic]

Maybe you didn't take a look at the league table for most of the season... or you want to rewrite history.... but yes, it is a fact...

 

 

 

He was fighting for promotion those other two seasons as well... Where have you been ? In a cave ?

 

 

 

One of the reasons given for sacking shez when they did was to give the new manager to have the whole summery to prepare. Great job...

 

I would accept it it a bit stronger with Norwich and Southampton...

 

Shez had a better budget in the first 2 seasons and the reminance of what Ronnie Moore had started to build. DP had a team that was falling apart and lost it's only real goal threat. I'm not saying he's done things well or hasn't made mistakes, but to blindly compare what he has done to how Shez did last season is pretty ridiculous. If we're going into more detail, Sheridan did progressively worse during his time here. If you wanted compare the two in terms of results I think you would have to give DP the same time to get things right/wrong. Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if DP was sacked at the end of the season, but it would be a little frustrating. Does changing your manager every season really give you the best chance of promotion? If he had a poor track record then i would maybe I would be more willing to get rid, but to be fair, the Darlington fans seemed pretty happy with him both results and performance wise.