Yard Dog Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 I put that list up just to emphasise to those unfamiliar with the location how close it is Newton Heath, Moston and New Moston. Failsworth is NOT in Oldham. Get over it I think one thing 90% of us on here can probably agree on though is that it is a :censored:e location for Oldham Athletic FC. In my opinion it's a location that could do more long-term harm than if we just sat where we are currently. TTA want out now though - they clearly haven't got the time/money/patience to sit tight and watch land values recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I put that list up just to emphasise to those unfamiliar with the location how close it is Newton Heath, Moston and New Moston. Failsworth is NOT in Oldham. Get over it Ok I will start from the beginning. Nobody is denying any of the below - That locations in shaw, chadderton or royton may be preferable - That some people from failsworth do not see themselves as being part of Oldham - That the area latics propose to move is not latics friendly territory - That failsworth is on the oldham/manc border But the following are indesputable facts, as rummy said its up to you whether you choose to believe them or not but the facts still remain - Failsworth falls under the duristiction of OMBC, but shares a border with Manchester, in the same way as Chadderton shares a border with both Manchester and Rochdale, and in the same way Royton shares a border with Rochdale, and the same way Saddleworth shares a border with yorkshire. - The people of failsworth pay their rates to OMBC. Hence apriori, Failsworth is as much a part of Oldham, as any of the other suburbs. And trying to argue that it isnt is just like trying to argue the sky isnt blue or the grass isnt green. Just because some of the people from there see themselves as being in/from Manchester, in the same sense as people from Saddleworth see themselves as part of Yorkshire, or people in south manchester see themselves as part of cheshire does not make it so. But you believe what the frig you want if it makes you feel better. I give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) But this bit is based on what exactly? Your findings on facebook? Or just your opinion from Morrside(sic) (illustrates your poor knowledge of Oldham if you haven't heard of Moorside!) Jeez, it's a typo. Get over it. I've lived in Moorside. They moved about 60 miles from Plough Lane, That's like moving to York or Stafford, Lancaster or past Liverpool into the Irish Sea. 60 miles is the same as 3 miles? Yeah!, It is similar, as like MK Dons, we're moving into an area, where we will need to establish a new fan base to replace large chunks of the old one which will be lost. Yeah, 3 miles, 60 miles, it's about the same. The world is flat and the sun revolves around it. FFS if you really stand by that point you're really not prepared to actually THINK about what you are saying are you? It's all intractable opinion based on nothing more than a fixed view. Try actually reading, comprehending and attemptin to understand other people's points. 60 miles = 3 miles in the mind of what sort of person? You decide. Edited May 23, 2010 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 Ok I will start from the beginning. Nobody is denying any of the below - That locations in shaw, chadderton or royton may be preferable - That some people from failsworth do not see themselves as being part of Oldham - That the area latics propose to move is not latics friendly territory - That failsworth is on the oldham/manc border But the following are indesputable facts, as rummy said its up to you whether you choose to believe them or not but the facts still remain - Failsworth falls under the duristiction of OMBC, but shares a border with Manchester, in the same way as Chadderton shares a border with both Manchester and Rochdale, and in the same way Royton shares a border with Rochdale, and the same way Saddleworth shares a border with yorkshire. - The people of failsworth pay their rates to OMBC. Hence apriori, Failsworth is as much a part of Oldham, as any of the other suburbs. And trying to argue that it isnt is just like trying to argue the sky isnt blue or the grass isnt green. Just because some of the people from there see themselves as being in/from Manchester, in the same sense as people from Saddleworth see themselves as part of Yorkshire, or people in south manchester see themselves as part of cheshire does not make it so. But you believe what the frig you want if it makes you feel better. I give up. Make my day - give up. I won't be brow-beaten, or patronised into submission. Even if I am wasting my breath, I will keep on stating that Failsworth is NOT in Oldham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 It is similar, as like MK Dons, we're moving into an area, where we will need to establish a new fan base to replace large chunks of the old one which will be lost. Despite being a supporter of the move, I recognise there are a number of valid arguments against it. That, on the other hand, is a load of bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 the fact remains where I live is in Oldham so it doesnt matter how I perceive it to be. Of course it matters, Carl! If the people of Failsworth don't consider themselves to be Oldhamers despite the official status and instead consider themselves Mancunian, at which point logic kicks in and says there's a very high chance they'll support a Manchester club, then that becomes a huge problem. Perception is everything when it comes down to this issue. If it isn't, then why the hell is there so much opposition?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Of course it matters, Carl! If the people of Failsworth don't consider themselves to be Oldhamers despite the official status and instead consider themselves Mancunian, at which point logic kicks in and says there's a very high chance they'll support a Manchester club, then that becomes a huge problem. Perception is everything when it comes down to this issue. If it isn't, then why the hell is there so much opposition?! I don't think your getting my point zorrro. In the context of Oldham;s move to Failsworth, you are absolutely right, perception is everything, I do not deny that and I have not denied that. My point was that yard dog is ultimately saying failsworth is not part of oldham. In the context of whether failsworth is geographically part of Oldham or not, then yes it is irrelevant what the people who live there think, as geographically failsworth falls under OMBC, in the same manner that it is irrelevant that a number of people in Saddleworth think that they live in Yorkshire, or that a number of people who live in Sale think that they live in cheshire. In this sense it is irrelevant, as the geographical boundaries dictate otherwise. My ultimate point was that we have two arguments here which some people see as the same, when in fact they are entirely two different arguments. - Argument number 1Is failsworth part of Oldham? Technically yes it is, it falls under OMBC, and the people who live there pay their rates to OMBC, hence in this sense Failsworth is just as much a part of Oldham as Chadderton, Oldham and Saddleworth. That is a fact and is not disputable. This was the point I was making when I said the same could be applied to chadderton. In this sense it doesnt matter if everyone in chadderton associated themselves with manchester. It doesn't change the fact that geographically comes under OMBC and is part of Oldham. - Argument number 2Do the people of Oldham perceive Failsworth to be part of Oldham/Do people of Failsworth perceive themselves to be part of Oldham or Manchester? This is the argument which affects us for the reasons you have stated above. The fact that failsworth is technically in Oldham is irrelevant here. It is the fact you are moving to an area, even if it is technically in Oldham, where alot of the people who live there arguably perceive themselves as mancunians, regardless of the fact that Failsworth is technically in Oldham, and are more likely to support a manc team. That is my point, the argument is and should be about perceptions of the people who live there. Regarding the actual geographical location according to the boundaries of the land, there is no dispute and no argument to be had, and arguing otherwise is like arguing against the earth revolving around the sun. Regarding what Yard dog was saying, if he does not perceive failsworth to be part of Oldham in the context of argument number two then fair enough. If he does not perceive failsworth to be part of Oldham as argument number one, thats where you start to look silly for the reasons stated above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 To be honest, Carl, I think Yard Dog's just trying to wind you up a bit because you went to great lengths to toe the official line. The initial question was asking for people's perceptions. It's as clear as day. I don't even know how all this 1974 bollocks got dragged into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Failsworth itself has not been a part of the City of Manchester for 115 years, since the Failsworth Urban District, in the county of Lancashire, was created following the 1894 Local Government Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Who cares if its part of it or not... Its not the right place for OAFC from a locality point of view regardless... But it seems its are only choice now... I think fighting against the move is just going to be fruitless... Would be worth putting our efforts into making sure we get out of it what we need.. Am I right in thinking we are getting out of all this: A neww football stadium (10 - 12,000 seater) Conference Facilities Office rental space My understanding is the rest will not be owned by Latics. So more worrying and pressing concerns is if that is enough to help us move forward. That is what we should be concentrating on IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 It's conceivable that if the club's move to Failsworth is a success (in terms of resident appeasement and success of the football team), the people of Failsworth may well see themselves more as Oldhamers than they currently do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 It's conceivable that if the club's move to Failsworth is a success (in terms of resident appeasement and success of the football team), the people of Failsworth may well see themselves more as Oldhamers than they currently do. I agree, if you put a sport venue in Failsworth with the name Oldham on it, give it ten years and the kids will be using it as an example of why Failsworth is in Oldham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 It's conceivable that if the club's move to Failsworth is a success (in terms of resident appeasement and success of the football team), the people of Failsworth may well see themselves more as Oldhamers than they currently do. I agree, if you put a sport venue in Failsworth with the name Oldham on it, give it ten years and the kids will be using it as an example of why Failsworth is in Oldham. Theres as much chance of that, as people from Stockport identifying themselves as coming from Sale due to the Sharks playing at Edgeley Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 My understanding is the rest will not be owned by Latics. So more worrying and pressing concerns is if that is enough to help us move forward. That is what we should be concentrating on IMO. have you got this understanding from some sort of quote/letter/email/statement? It'd be interesting to see a copy if it is the case. Can you post it on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 (edited) have you got this understanding from some sort of quote/letter/email/statement? It'd be interesting to see a copy if it is the case. Can you post it on here? All we do know is that Corney said Latics will own the stadium... We know what the stadium will include... Now using the logic presented by yourself over and over again regarding not being able to reallocate assets to other companies I think it is reasonable to presume that Latics will not be owning the wider complex... but then again, using that same argument, how does Latics end up owning the stadium ? I presume latics will be "buying" the stadium off TTAs other company. Will they buy the wider complex. I doubt that... I think these are the areas we should now be focusing on... As for statement etc... Barry and the other directors view these board but every time the questions are raised they choose not to engage.... Considering we where meant to be breaking ground in the spring (ha) and we STILL do not have the answers on such vital questions goes to show how much in the dark we still are about it all... Edited May 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 All we do know is that Corney said Latics will own the stadium... We know what the stadium will include... Now using the logic presented by yourself over and over again regarding not being able to reallocate assets to other companies I think it is reasonable to presume that Latics will not be owning the wider complex... but then again, using that same argument, how does Latics end up owning the stadium ? I presume latics will be "buying" the stadium off TTAs other company. Will they buy the wider complex. I doubt that... I think these are the areas we should now be focusing on... As for statement etc... Barry and the other directors view these board but every time the questions are raised they choose not to engage.... Considering we where meant to be breaking ground in the spring (ha) and we STILL do not have the answers on such vital questions goes to show how much in the dark we still are about it all... No, I didn't say that. I said that you cannot do that sort of thing when it may prejudice the interest of a minority shareholder. It was in response to your claim that a board of directors can do whatever they like on the basis of having a majority vote, which is not correct. It was a reference to minority shareholder's protection in law. It also relates strongly to the issue of corporate governance. As you've tried to put some sort of spin on it with your claims that it was "logic presented... ...over and over again", I'll just remind you that you are a company director and have been a none-executive director on 2 other boards (by your own statements); That you can fail to understand company law, and that having had it pointed out to you, can fail to understand the essence of the point suggests that you should be doing some homework. I take it that the answer was:- "No, I haven't seen anything to arrive at that conclusion, it's based on the absence of evidence rather than the presence of it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Postal address, postal code. Which is all determined by the location of the sorting office which deals with the post for the place in question. Thats why didn't top myself years ago .... grew up having to use an OL postcode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 (edited) It seems any attempt to discover what we are going to end up with or any attempt to work it out will be meet with bollocks... Real, I can't be arsed going over old ground with you, you might want to start putting more effort into discovering the truth and what latics are getting out of this deal than just being totally trusting or looking to pick fights with various people who are just looking for the truth... I seem to be in the minority of people still worried that in May 2010 we still haven't really got a clue about what we are getting... I suspect this is due to people presuming we will be getting the job lot of what has been announced while nothing has been confirmed... I just want to know the truth... ---------------------------------------------------------- FFS... can one of the mods fix these bloody board!! I must get about 50 authorization mismatched every day.... Edited May 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 It seems any attempt to discover what we are going to end up with or any attempt to work it out will be meet with bollocks... Real, I can't be arsed going over old ground with you, you might want to start putting more effort into discovering the truth and what latics are getting out of this deal than just being totally trusting or looking to pick fights with various people who are just looking for the truth... I seem to be in the minority of people still worried that in May 2010 we still haven't really got a clue about what we are getting... I suspect this is due to people presuming we will be getting the job lot of what has been announced while nothing has been confirmed... I just want to know the truth... ---------------------------------------------------------- FFS... can one of the mods fix these bloody board!! I must get about 50 authorization mismatched every day.... Whoooah there. I just asked if you'd had some info. You chose to dig. Have you tried emailing the club with your questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 (edited) Whoooah there. I just asked if you'd had some info. You chose to dig. Have you tried emailing the club with your questions? I haven't... Maybe the trust or Barry could find out / answer? Unless these questions are only held by me... Considering the club haven't confirmed what is to be built its hard to ask them the question... Like I said, we was meant to be breaking ground in the spring yet we have no idea what we was breaking ground for... Edited May 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I haven't... Maybe the trust or Barry could find out / answer? Unless these questions are only held by me... Considering the club haven't confirmed what is to be built its hard to ask them the question... Like I said, we was meant to be breaking ground in the spring yet we have no idea what we was breaking ground for... Maybe you should try emailing the club, just in case no-one else has the same questions as you. You could try:- Will Oldham Athletic own the Stadium outright? Will Oldham Athletic own the full extent of the land formerly owned by the Lancaster Club/BAe Systems? Will Oldham Athletic hold the lease for the land that is leased from OMBC? Will Oldham Athletic own the facilities and developments based within the land as stated? I really don't know why you have such resistance to the idea of emailing your questions, so that you can get some sort of answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Maybe you should try emailing the club, just in case no-one else has the same questions as you. You could try:- Will Oldham Athletic own the Stadium outright? Will Oldham Athletic own the full extent of the land formerly owned by the Lancaster Club/BAe Systems? Will Oldham Athletic hold the lease for the land that is leased from OMBC? Will Oldham Athletic own the facilities and developments based within the land as stated? I really don't know why you have such resistance to the idea of emailing your questions, so that you can get some sort of answer. I email them all the time... I suspect us to own the stadium, I trust Corney on that one, he said we would... I don't care if we own the land or what the lease arrangement is... I don't expect us to own the facilities... I think a lot of fans do though... This is the only outstanding issue I have though... I won't be shocked to hear we only own the stadium... I think others might be though... I suppose its up to the ones who think we will own more to ask the questions... I am just saying people should not presume we will be owning anything other than the stadium... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I said: "Have you tried emailing the club?" You said:- I haven't... Maybe the trust or Barry could find out / answer? Unless these questions are only held by me... Considering the club haven't confirmed what is to be built its hard to ask them the question... Like I said, we was meant to be breaking ground in the spring yet we have no idea what we was breaking ground for... Then you say:- I email them all the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 (edited) I said: "Have you tried emailing the club?" You said:- Then you say:- so ? I do email them all the time... Although all the time does not mean daily and was probably over stating it... I have contacted the club on several occasions over the last year... I haven't asked them the question regarding the facilities we will own... What do you think we are going to own come the end of all this ? Do you think my presumptions will prove to be wrong? Edited May 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Nothing. But at least that means no debt. Possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.