In the current financial climate are regional leagues the answer ?

[BP1960]

In the current financial climate are regional leagues the answer, should divisions North & South be brought back ?

Edited March 7, 2011 by BP1960

[RobOAFC]

No - some of the longer distance games can be the better ones..

[HarryBosch]

even with fuel at £1.30 a litre and however much it costs for hotel stays, both would be a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of our finances i'd imagine

 

so, no.

 

having said that, it would be better for us the fans to have more local away games

 

how do you balance it out though if, eg southern teams keep going up and northern ones don't?

[BP1960]

even with fuel at £1.30 a litre and however much it costs for hotel stays, both would be a drop in the ocean in the grand scheme of our finances i'd imagine

 

so, no.

 

having said that, it would be better for us the fans to have more local away games

 

how do you balance it out though if, eg southern teams keep going up and northern ones don't?

 

As in the Blue Square leagues North & South, but they have problems balancing there.

[opinions4u]

Why did they scrap division 3 north and south?

 

How many teams would be promoted to the Championship? And how would this work (e.g. 3 promoted out of 48 doesn't give you much to play for compared to 7 today)?

 

Norwich is north of Birmingham. So if they were relegated again, would they be a local northern game?

[BP1960]

In Germany they only have 3 countrywide leagues, the rest are regional.

Its similar in the most of Europe with some only having 2 countrywide leagues.

In England we have 5 countrywide leagues, (most full time professional) is that sustainable ?

Edited March 7, 2011 by BP1960

[real]

If you have 4 down from the championship, 2 up from each of the north/south leagues, what happens if 4 northern teams come down? Preston, Barnsley, Sheff U and Burnley?

Do the most southern teams in the northern league get moved? Will Walsall ever know who ANY of the teams they will play in the next season might be?

 

As for getting more fans to more games due to the local factor, I'd suspect most have a set portion of their budget/time to spend on footy; the travel isn't that much of the money, and even the time isn't.

People might go to 20% more away games, but an extra 20% on the away gate isn't going to do that much for finances. And it might get wearisome playing the same teams year after year (it might be like staying in the same division for 15 years or so ).

[BP1960]

If you have 4 down from the championship, 2 up from each of the north/south leagues, what happens if 4 northern teams come down? Preston, Barnsley, Sheff U and Burnley?

Do the most southern teams in the northern league get moved? Will Walsall ever know who ANY of the teams they will play in the next season might be?

 

As for getting more fans to more games due to the local factor, I'd suspect most have a set portion of their budget/time to spend on footy; the travel isn't that much of the money, and even the time isn't.

People might go to 20% more away games, but an extra 20% on the away gate isn't going to do that much for finances. And it might get wearisome playing the same teams year after year (it might be like staying in the same division for 15 years or so ).

 

That must have happened under the old Football league North & South system, but I think only 2 clubs were relegated then ?

I wonder what a North & South league would look like now taking into account the current league standings ?

Edited March 7, 2011 by BP1960

[RichmondLatic]

Got to be the way forward.

 

So North:

 

Latics

Carlisle

Huddersfield

Hartlepool

Rochdale

S Wednesday

Notts Co

Tranmere

Walsall

Chesterfield

Crewe

Burton

Port Vale

Shrewsbury

Rotherham

Accrington

Lincoln

Northampton

Morecambe

Bradford

Macclesfield

Stockport

Bury

Hereford

 

Would mean much much better crowds. Adjustments arent a huge problem as long as everyone is aware of the rules at the start.

[GlossopLatic]

That must have happened under the old Football league North & South system, but I think only 2 clubs were relegated then ?

I wonder what a North & South league would look like now taking into account the current league standings ?

 

Its pretty simple in the sense that you basically get the 24 most northerly teams on the map out of the 48 and 24 of the most southern teams in the other. This means the likes of Walsall and Shrewsbury say could be playing in either 3rd division north or 3rd division south depending on the demographics of the teams it would be easy to work in that respect.

 

What would be difficult would be promotion and relegation as you might only get probably a maximum of 2 teams going up out of each division. Lets face it we all complain about being in this division for too long it would be even harder to get out of at either end. Plus you also have to think of the quality of football you would be watching a agme against someone like Brighton say is far more likely to be a better game than playing Macclesfield for example.

[BP1960]

Got to be the way forward.

 

So North:

 

Latics

Carlisle

Huddersfield

Hartlepool

Rochdale

S Wednesday

Notts Co

Tranmere

Walsall

Chesterfield

Crewe

Burton

Port Vale

Shrewsbury

Rotherham

Accrington

Lincoln

Northampton

Morecambe

Bradford

Macclesfield

Stockport

Bury

Hereford

 

Would mean much much better crowds. Adjustments arent a huge problem as long as everyone is aware of the rules at the start.

 

What about the teams that look like being relegated from the Championship?

[GlossopLatic]

What about the teams that look like being relegated from the Championship?

 

Current bottom 8 read like this

 

16 Barnsley 35 43

17 Doncaster Rovers 35 42

18 Derby County 35 40

19 Coventry City 34 40

20 Middlesbrough 34 37

21 Crystal Palace 35 35

22 Scunthorpe United 34 34

23 Sheffield United 35 29

24 Preston North End 34 25

 

With the exception of Palace all Northenish teams with Brighton roaring away at the top and Bournemouth and Southampton looking good poetentailly its a much more northern based division next year. Rotherham must be desperate to get promotion with potentially both sheffield clubs in this league next year plus Barnsley or Doncaster if they hit a bad run of form they will feel like they have hit the jackpot.

 

League 2 currently looks like this

 

1 Chesterfield 35 11 3 3 43 25 8 8 2 24 13 29 68

2 Bury 33 6 6 3 23 15 10 3 5 37 20 25 57

3 Wycombe 34 9 5 4 29 21 7 4 5 21 21 8 57

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

4 Rotherham 34 9 6 2 37 20 6 4 7 22 22 17 55

5 Shrewsbury 34 8 6 3 24 14 7 4 6 28 21 17 55

6 Port Vale 33 9 4 3 19 13 6 5 6 20 18 8 54

7 Gillingham 35 9 5 4 21 14 4 8 5 27 26 8 52

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So again more northern teams to come up potentially.

[the_mighty_bosh]

As in the Blue Square leagues North & South, but they have problems balancing there.

 

Very true, how Gloucester were in North and Worcester were in South last season is beyond me.

[Forte_Baby]

Truth is yes it would be better would generate more money for clubs better away followings more local derby matches.

 

However from a selfish point of view not a chance. You cannot beat watching Oldham on the road getting up at a stupid time on a Saturday morning even if there is only a few hundred of us.

[oafc1955]

Truth is yes it would be better would generate more money for clubs better away followings more local derby matches.

 

However from a selfish point of view not a chance. You cannot beat watching Oldham on the road getting up at a stupid time on a Saturday morning even if

 

 

there is only a few hundred of us.

 

And that's why it should at least be considered!

[JohnnyPimp]

We're a pretty small country so travel, in the grand scheme of things isn't much of a factor.

 

Anyway, looking at the current league tables, we could have a pleasant turnaround of teams in this division next season.

[rudemedic]

Got to be the way forward.

 

So North:

 

Latics

Carlisle

Huddersfield

Hartlepool

Rochdale

S Wednesday

Notts Co

Tranmere

Walsall

Chesterfield

Crewe

Burton

Port Vale

Shrewsbury

Rotherham

Accrington

Lincoln

Northampton

Morecambe

Bradford

Macclesfield

Stockport

Bury

Hereford

 

Would mean much much better crowds. Adjustments arent a huge problem as long as everyone is aware of the rules at the start.

 

Actually it wouldn't as Peterbrough is more Northerly than both Northampton and Hereford so Hereford would be in the South. I'd fancy Southampton to bring a bigger crowd than most of those teams.

 

(the next bit is not a reply to you but to other posts)

Perhaps Gloucester is in the North and Worcester in the South because Gloucester is easily travellable from Newcastle (so Blyth and Gateshead) by train where as Worcester isn't.

 

My other arguments against regionalisation can be found amongst the numeorus other times this topic has come up.

[oafc1955]

We're a pretty small country so travel, in the grand scheme of things isn't much of a factor.

 

Anyway, looking at the current league tables, we could have a pleasant turnaround of teams in this division next season.

 

 

We're a pretty small country so travel, in the grand scheme of things isn't much of a factor.

 

It's not for supporters ie. 4 in a car etc.but it's a massive expense for a football club traveling to Plymouth, Southampton or Brighton. 20 odd players and staff on an overnight stay is a bloody massive expense!!!

[Dave_Og]

Very true, how Gloucester were in North and Worcester were in South last season is beyond me.

In conf south one question was around Newport which became irrelavant as they were promoted. There was a debate about which way they would go as the North division had a lot of midlands clubs which would have been closer for them than had they been left in South.

 

There was also a chance that Braintree woudl have been shunted into the north - they are the local rivals of my side and all of about a mile further north.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Dave_Og

[jimsleftfoot]

I don't think a North South structure would make lower league professional football that much more sustainable and it would probably make it one step closer to such clubs going semi pro.

 

From purely a business point of view, I think that clubs with many small teams in larger urban areas would be better merging together e.g. Oldham, Rochdale and Bury but granted from a football point of view, the majority perhaps would consider this to unpalatable and would prefer to watch a semi pro Oldham.

Edited March 8, 2011 by jimsleftfoot

[Monty Burns]

what happens if all the clubs relegated form the championship are southern? how do you filter that down? no northern promotions or extra southern league one south relegations? cant see how it works meself.

[LaticsPete]

what happens if all the clubs relegated form the championship are southern? how do you filter that down? no northern promotions or extra southern league one south relegations? cant see how it works meself.

 

As has been said, it's dead easy. Worked fine when we had Div 3S and Div 3 N.

The two divisions are arranged so that the 24 most northern teams are in one division and the 24 most southern in the other. Some clubs moved e.g Shrewsbury, Walsall but it's not a major problem.

[Monty Burns]

As has been said, it's dead easy. Worked fine when we had Div 3S and Div 3 N.

The two divisions are arranged so that the 24 most northern teams are in one division and the 24 most southern in the other. Some clubs moved e.g Shrewsbury, Walsall but it's not a major problem.

 

it had no replies, but now theres a page??? must be my browser!!

looks like youve summed that up, but lets have a ganders anyways..

[oafc1955]

what happens if all the clubs relegated form the championship are southern? how do you filter that down? no northern promotions or extra southern league one south relegations? cant see how it works meself.

 

You would just have to move the north south border to accommodate the three or four teams. It isn't ideal but the bottom line is it will cut costs and increase revenue for the vast majority of teams.

 

The thing is if we carry on as we are and do nowt some 1st and 2nd Division clubs will fold. It was reported that along with ourselves 8 more teams failed to pay staff at the correct time last month and it's only a matter of time before the :censored: hits the fan!

 

It's not a perfect scenario but It would dramatically cut traveling costs and would increase attendances for the vast majority of clubs. I know fans want to stick with tradition and like the long weekend treks to far off grounds but the trouble is that their clubs might not even be in the league in the not too distant future!!

[Matt]

You would just have to move the north south border to accommodate the three or four teams. It isn't ideal but the bottom line is it will cut costs and increase revenue for the vast majority of teams.

 

The thing is if we carry on as we are and do nowt some 1st and 2nd Division clubs will fold. It was reported that along with ourselves 8 more teams failed to pay staff at the correct time last month and it's only a matter of time before the :censored: hits the fan!

 

It's not a perfect scenario but It would dramatically cut traveling costs and would increase attendances for the vast majority of clubs. I know fans want to stick with tradition and like the long weekend treks to far off grounds but the trouble is that their clubs might not even be in the league in the not too distant future!!

Stop scaremongering.

 

How is sticking to tradition forcing the debate on setting football back 50 years?

 

Increase attendances? How so? I don't think Walsall, or Shrewsbury or Lincoln, or Darlington etc would bring anymore than Bristol Rovers or Peterboro. If this was in place now, we'd miss out on games against Soton, Charlton, recently Norwich and teams like that. I can't really remember Bury hanging from the rafters when they visited last.

 

And how much does it actually cost the club to move a team around? Apart from maybe Brighton or Torquay, I'd have them back the same day - as is the case now, I'm sure. So I can't see there being terrific savings either.

 

So, for re-constructing the entire lower half of the football league, there doesn't seem to be a big payoff.

 

I used to think that it would be a sure fire way to regenerate the lower leagues, when in fact all that would happen is to doom many clubs to semi-professional football or worse. I think it's a step backwards and one nearer to cutting off the lower leagues from the higher echelons altogether.