Latics' Problem

[Monty Burns]

Your missing the point. It's a football club. It's not a frigging restaurant. You can't compare the two.

You don't eat at a restaurant in your teens and decide that your going to eat there forever. You dpnt buy their uniforms and get your favourite waitresses names printed on the back. You don't make songs up about the cheese and onion pie and stand with a group of friends singing them.

 

Canadian Charcoal Pit is the best

I get chicken and lamb if you gue-essed

I sometimes even get donner meat

Canadian

CHARCOAL PIIIT.

[Zorrro]

I like football. It's good fun having a few beers and getting a bit rowdy and celebrating the odd goal. But all in all, it's not actually that important. If people want to go to every game, fair play. If people don't want to go to games but want a team to do well, fair play.

 

It's not a competition; it doesn't make you a better or worse human being; it's just a :censored:ing game.

[BP1960]

Your missing the point. It's a football club. It's not a frigging restaurant. You can't compare the two.

You don't eat at a restaurant in your teens and decide that your going to eat there forever. You dpnt buy their uniforms and get your favourite waitresses names printed on the back. You don't make songs up about the cheese and onion pie and stand with a group of friends singing them.

 

You are missing the point that the the club is a business and has to provide decent service or the majority will find somewhere else to go.

Many of us have been to the same pub for umpteen years, but still have a drink in other pubs.

Lower division football clubs can't count on loyalty anymore, they have to work hard at the product to retain and attract new customers.

Edited September 28, 2011 by BP1960

[Diego_Sideburns]

Your missing the point. It's a football club. It's not a frigging restaurant. You can't compare the two.

You don't eat at a restaurant in your teens and decide that your going to eat there forever. You dpnt buy their uniforms and get your favourite waitresses names printed on the back. You don't make songs up about the cheese and onion pie and stand with a group of friends singing them.

 

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that obvious explanation?

[Monty Burns]

I like football. It's good fun having a few beers and getting a bit rowdy and celebrating the odd goal. But all in all, it's not actually that important. If people want to go to every game, fair play. If people don't want to go to games but want a team to do well, fair play.

 

It's not a competition; it doesn't make you a better or worse human being; it's just a :censored:ing game.

 

BURN HIM.

[Ackey]

Your missing the point. It's a football club. It's not a frigging restaurant. You can't compare the two.

You don't eat at a restaurant in your teens and decide that your going to eat there forever. You dpnt buy their uniforms and get your favourite waitresses names printed on the back. You don't make songs up about the cheese and onion pie and stand with a group of friends singing them.

You clearly don't know Zorrro. Nando's - Every. Single. Day.

[Stevie_J]

You clearly don't know Zorrro. Nando's - Every. Single. Day.

But still not quite as regular a Reuben Reid.

[oafc0000]

Your missing the point. It's a football club. It's not a frigging restaurant. You can't compare the two.

You don't eat at a restaurant in your teens and decide that your going to eat there forever. You dpnt buy their uniforms and get your favourite waitresses names printed on the back. You don't make songs up about the cheese and onion pie and stand with a group of friends singing them.

 

I think the point is... The amount of people who actually commit to a football club on those terms are less in number now... When football started charging £20 for League One football... When Football basically became more about the money than the sport... Then people started viewing it in a different way...

Edited September 28, 2011 by oafc0000

[BP1960]

My brother is the sort of person the Latics should be trying to entice, he is a Man U fan and has Sky Sports, however when he thinks an exciting game is on offer at BP (i.e against a high flying team) he will pay to sit in the Chaddy End.

The problem is he is not convinced there will be many exciting matches at BP and the home form since last February doesn't encourage him.

[jimsleftfoot]

Your missing the point. It's a football club. It's not a frigging restaurant. You can't compare the two.

You don't eat at a restaurant in your teens and decide that your going to eat there forever. You dpnt buy their uniforms and get your favourite waitresses names printed on the back. You don't make songs up about the cheese and onion pie and stand with a group of friends singing them.

 

Both are businesses.

Both have staff.

Both sell things in return for a benefit recieved by the consumer.

Both have regular customers, perhaps life long customers i.e. some people eat Mcdonalds all their lives.

Both have not so regular customers who visit time to time but perhaps would visit more if certain needs were satisfied.

Both are part of the service sector primarily.

Both sell 'luxury' or 'want' items.

Both rely mainly on a local base of customers.

[Scapegoat]

Both are businesses.

Both have staff.

Both sell things in return for a benefit recieved by the consumer.

Both have regular customers, perhaps life long customers i.e. some people eat Mcdonalds all their lives.

Both have not so regular customers who visit time to time but perhaps would visit more if certain needs were satisfied.

Both are part of the service sector primarily.

Both sell 'luxury' or 'want' items.

Both rely mainly on a local base of customers.

 

Whilst its possible to list reasons why football is like another business, I think its pretty clear that your football team is different in how you genuinely feel about it, then any other form of good / service you procure (with the exception of other sporting teams I suppose).

 

If you genuniely follow a team then that is something that is with you for life. You may stop going to watch, but its almost unheard of for someone to choose to then 'follow' another team, and they will be your team until the day you die.

 

That said, football I think has for too long relied upon this 'get them, get them for life' basis and been lazy and slack in its treatment of its customers. The game needs to learn more from other businesses and how to treat customers - some clubs do this better than others (I always think Hudderfield are good at this).

[jimsleftfoot]

Whilst its possible to list reasons why football is like another business, I think its pretty clear that your football team is different in how you genuinely feel about it, then any other form of good / service you procure (with the exception of other sporting teams I suppose).

 

If you genuniely follow a team then that is something that is with you for life. You may stop going to watch, but its almost unheard of for someone to choose to then 'follow' another team, and they will be your team until the day you die.

 

That said, football I think has for too long relied upon this 'get them, get them for life' basis and been lazy and slack in its treatment of its customers. The game needs to learn more from other businesses and how to treat customers - some clubs do this better than others (I always think Hudderfield are good at this).

 

I would agree that there is likely to be greater brand loyalty with hard core fans and football clubs than there are with other businesses or products. However, the fans that we are trying to attract are not hard core, they do not have the brand loyalty and as you correctly state in your last paragraph, our clube needs to get better at how it treats these non-core fans in order to get them and to keep them.

 

In regards to saying its unheard of fans switching allegencies. I could cite many examples indeed caused by marriages, moving house, boredom etc etc. Yes spiritually someones heart may be still be in one club or the other, but that cliche means nothing when compared to the cold hard cash the other club will be getting.

Edited September 28, 2011 by jimsleftfoot

[Lookers_Carl]

You're one of the few who pays cash to the Club indirectly via PlayerShare, therefore you're excluded from my definition.

 

You ask:

What have the club done to give the stayaways a reason to come back and earn back their support?

As a supporter of the Club, which never wins anything, I cannot get into the mindset of it needing to earn my support. Call it blind loyalty if you want. Experience has shown that if the Club offered the prospect of glory in the form of a cup tie against a large club, some would come back, but by its very nature it would be short-lived support.

 

What can the club offer the stayaways in return for their support?

If enough of them return, the cash generated may encourage outside investment and expedite plans for the redevelopment of BP, with a view to securing the Club's future. It's a chicken and egg situation.

 

What reason have these 'stayaways' got to start attending games again?

A willingness to contribute towards the survival of the Club.

 

You can compare it with businesses and products, but as I said earlier the attitude of "Oldham 'til I die" is something not understood easily as it defies all logic.

 

But thats the point what you don't seem to get Diego. And regarding the first question in bold I asked, you haven't answered it.

 

I understand you and a few others have the 'Oldham till I die' attitude. The point am making is the ones who have gone away obviously do not have the 'oldham to I die' attitude, otherwise they won't have stopped attending in the first place, and thats what you are having trouble dealing with. By labeling a group of fans, who do not have the Oldham till I die attitude and who are choosing not to attend as 'stayaways', being extremely patronising towartds them, and trying to place the fault of Oldham Athletics inability to compete on their non attendance, for not having the same 'Oldham till I die' attitude as yourself.

 

The fact that the 'stayaways' don't have this attitude is something that the club needs to deal with. Rather than guilt tripping the fans, or being scornful because they don't share the 'Oldham till I die' attitude, the club needs to accept that these 'stayaways' don't have the 'oldham till I die' attitude, but acknowledge they still need to get them through the gates.

 

My question was you have labeled this particular group of fans 'stayaways' and are blaming them on the clubs inability to compete. At the end of the day these are the customers, not the club. And in the context of football as we have already established, they do not have the 'oldham till I die' attitude, hence we must accept the possibility that they will not attend come what may, and that they will choose other options at times if they can get better elsewhere. What, has Oldham Athletic AFC done, to give these fans a reason to come back through the turnstiles at Boundary Park?

 

Regarding your second answer 'A willingness to contribute towards the survival of the Club.', the negativity of such an answer probably just about proves right what I have said earlier, and is along the same lines of guilt tripping that the club has done. It sounds like a charity plea.

 

Why should your average floating fan, who does not share the 'oldham till I die' logic, part with his cash to help a stagnant league one club that offers mediocre football in a run down environment, at an arguably very expensive price, to mereyl exist or survive, as opposed to other clubs who are moving forward?

 

It is up to the club, to give a reason that is a damn site more upbeat than survival. It needs a much more posititve and upbeat message, and it is the clubs responsibility to get this message out to the stayaways. It is not the responsibility of the stayaways to come to the club in order to hear it. Like I said earlier, if the club wants something, it needs to earn it, and go out and get it, rather than do nothing and idley wait for opportunities to come its way.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Lookers_Carl

[danoafc]

But thats the point what you don't seem to get Diego. And regarding the first question in bold I asked, you haven't answered it.

 

I understand you and a few others have the 'Oldham till I die' attitude. The point am making is the ones who have gone away obviously do not have the 'oldham to I die' attitude, otherwise they won't have stopped attending in the first place, and thats what you are having trouble dealing with. By labeling a group of fans, who do not have the Oldham till I die attitude and who are choosing not to attend as 'stayaways', being extremely patronising towartds them, and trying to place the fault of Oldham Athletics inability to compete on their non attendance, for not having the same 'Oldham till I die' attitude as yourself.

 

The fact that the 'stayaways' don't have this attitude is something that the club needs to deal with. Rather than guilt tripping the fans, or being scornful because they don't share the 'Oldham till I die' attitude, the club needs to accept that these 'stayaways' don't have the 'oldham till I die' attitude, but acknowledge they still need to get them through the gates.

 

My question was you have labeled this particular group of fans 'stayaways' and are blaming them on the clubs inability to compete. At the end of the day these are the customers, not the club. And in the context of football as we have already established, they do not have the 'oldham till I die' attitude, hence we must accept the possibility that they will not attend come what may, and that they will choose other options at times if they can get better elsewhere. Mt question to you is what, has Oldham Athletic AFC done, to give these fans a reason to come back through the turnstiles at Boundary Park?

Regarding your second answer 'A willingness to contribute towards the survival of the Club.', the negativity of such an answer probably just about proves right what I have said earlier, and is along the same lines of guilt tripping that the club has done. Why should your average floating fan, who does not share the 'oldham till I die' logic, part with his cash to help a stagnant league one club that offers mediocre football in a run down environment, at an arguably very expensive price, to mereyl exist or survive, as opposed to other clubs who are moving forward? Again its a very negative reason, and typifies the emotional blackmail and guilt tripping that has come out of the club whenever there is a significant drop in attendances.

 

 

What do you WANT the club to do Carl? Other than to promise to invest as much as they can afford into a team and manager capable of entertaining it's patrons.

[Diego_Sideburns]

Admittedly a football club is, now more so than ever, a business. It has paid employees, an inner hierarchy and essentially tries to make money, granted, but how many ‘businesses’ do you know that have provided such a multitude of emotions for so many people consistently year upon year and have dedicated followers?

 

Football supporting dedicated to one club for life is a concept misunderstood by many, with people often claiming they "don’t get it". It’s a feeling that can’t be explained satisfactorily. I don't expect those waiting to be enticed back to BP by the Club, or those intolerent of mid-table mediocrity, to understand what I think the dwindling hardcore get from their continued attendance.

 

In what other everyday life situations can you walk into an area where your personality is left behind at the door because you know that, unlike in everyday life, for the next 90 minutes you don’t need to prove yourself in any way? In what other possible scenario do you find yourself leaping manically around in joy and hugging a total stranger? You don’t know this person, they don’t know you, and on exiting the turnstiles you go your separate ways, to different homes, and different lives. But that matters not as, through the shared love of the team, you were, however briefly, united, at one with each other. People may say they get the same experience watching a live match in the pub, but it can't be the same.

 

Granted this happens watching Latics more occasionally in recent seasons than in the past, but it still happens, and when it does, you're glad you were there. Grown men and women scream like banshees and cry like babies but we love it. If it was taken away it would rip away part of our life, and not just a part of the present, but a part of our personality and a part of our individual history. I’m sure many of you in your youth (and let’s be honest still to this day) have scored a goal in the park and fantasised that you are in fact scoring the winning goal for Latics in a crucial match, fans singing your name (even if only for delaying a goal-kick for a few valuable seconds ). We’ve all done it.

 

I've written on this before and I refer to one of my previous posts and the reply from beag_teeets, which capture what I'm on about.

 

I don't watch Sky TV, don't play Champ Manager or whatever, so I'm still following Latics and not too disappointed as I didn't raise my expectations at the start of the season beyond a mid-table finish. The football has been dire and, if we don't improve, relegation is a real possibility.

 

Matchday (even at BP) is a good day out, plenty of social intercourse, fresh air, good exercise of the lungs and voice-box, and the stress-busting opportunity to let off steam. It's gotta be better than watching teletext latest scores.

 

Occasionally, like during the final 30 minutes at home to Colchester, the atmosphere becomes electric once again and it's just like the old days. If only that fuse could be lit more often.

 

 

I remember you saying the same thing many years ago and it has stayed with me. The ability to stand in the open air and shout at the top of your voice about so and so or such and such and not either get bundled into the back of a police van or into the padded cell is

priceless. All the tension and stress that builds up during the week can be got rid of at the match.

 

As for the Colchester game, I'd forgotten all about that, had to check the match report to remind me. When Brooke scored the equaliser we went mental! Once we got the first it was certain that we would get something out of the game. Can't wait for tomorrow night now, plus we get to take the mick out of the plastic scousers.

[Lookers_Carl]

What do you WANT the club to do Carl? Other than to promise to invest as much as they can afford into a team and manager capable of entertaining it's patrons.

 

Speaking purely from a personal basis,

 

I want the club to do alot more to make the matchday experience at Boundary Park as good as it can be, and make the most of the facilities it has. For example, how many days a week in the past was the chronicle suite and sponsors suite empty, when the club could have been using them and making money on the bar? When I was last going regularly the catering was a serious problem re running out of food early. As I understand, this is still a problem at the moment, but its something, unlike the poor facilities, that can be remedied overnight with better management, and something that the club can do something about. All well and good saying the catering is outsourced? The club have made the choice to hire this company to represent them. If they are not doing it sufficiently, then replace them with someone who will. Whilst I will admit, given the current state of Boundary Park, this wont be enough to make me buy a season ticket, if I see the club is doing its absolute upmost to make the most of what it has, I may be inclined to attend a few games.

 

And more importantly, I want to see a plan that has a chance of re-establishing the club in the second tier of English football. And by establishing, I don't just mean getting promoted. I mean getting promoted, comfortably staying there, and competing. Whilst I accept the situation at the moment, I will not accept that it always have to be this way. I thought Failsworth stood a good chance of establishing us as a championship team. However, I was absolutely gutted when it was announced we were staying here, and am not convinced in the slightest that a redeveloped Boundary Park, that in all likelyhood will be a scaled down version of what we would have got at failsworth, can sustain a team in the championship. Whilst it might have done a few decades ago, it is a much stronger league these days.

 

In a nutshell I want a move forward attitude from the club, not a get by and survive attitude. Whilst I am happy Dickov seems to have this, I am not convinced those running the club off the field have this attitude at the moment. Which is why I decided to give money to Playershare, but I will not pay on the gate at the moment.

 

Hope that has answered your question

Edited September 28, 2011 by Lookers_Carl

[Matt]

Admittedly a football club is, now more so than ever, a business. It has paid employees, an inner hierarchy and essentially tries to make money, granted, but how many ‘businesses’ do you know that have provided such a multitude of emotions for so many people consistently year upon year and have dedicated followers?

 

Football supporting dedicated to one club for life is a concept misunderstood by many, with people often claiming they "don’t get it". It’s a feeling that can’t be explained satisfactorily. I don't expect those waiting to be enticed back to BP by the Club, or those intolerent of mid-table mediocrity, to understand what I think the dwindling hardcore get from their continued attendance.

 

In what other everyday life situations can you walk into an area where your personality is left behind at the door because you know that, unlike in everyday life, for the next 90 minutes you don’t need to prove yourself in any way? In what other possible scenario do you find yourself leaping manically around in joy and hugging a total stranger? You don’t know this person, they don’t know you, and on exiting the turnstiles you go your separate ways, to different homes, and different lives. But that matters not as, through the shared love of the team, you were, however briefly, united, at one with each other. People may say they get the same experience watching a live match in the pub, but it can't be the same.

 

Granted this happens watching Latics more occasionally in recent seasons than in the past, but it still happens, and when it does, you're glad you were there. Grown men and women scream like banshees and cry like babies but we love it. If it was taken away it would rip away part of our life, and not just a part of the present, but a part of our personality and a part of our individual history. I’m sure many of you in your youth (and let’s be honest still to this day) have scored a goal in the park and fantasised that you are in fact scoring the winning goal for Latics in a crucial match, fans singing your name (even if only for delaying a goal-kick for a few valuable seconds ). We’ve all done it.

I'm sorry, why all the sanctimony? Good grief. "If people don't want to go to games but want a team to do well, fair play."

 

I like football. It's good fun having a few beers and getting a bit rowdy and celebrating the odd goal. But all in all, it's not actually that important. If people want to go to every game, fair play. If people don't want to go to games but want a team to do well, fair play.

 

It's not a competition; it doesn't make you a better or worse human being; it's just a :censored:ing game.

Bravo sir. Now can we leave all this superiority here?

[danoafc]

Speaking purely from a personal basis,

 

I want the club to do alot more to make the matchday experience at Boundary Park as good as it can be, and make the most of the facilities it has. For example, how many days a week in the past was the chronicle suite and sponsors suite empty, when the club could have been using them and making money on the bar? When I was last going regularly the catering was a serious problem re running out of food early. As I understand, this is still a problem at the moment, but its something, unlike the poor facilities, that can be remedied overnight with better management, and something that the club can do something about. All well and good saying the catering is outsourced? The club have made the choice to hire this company to represent them. If they are not doing it sufficiently, then replace them with someone who will. Whilst I will admit, given the current state of Boundary Park, this wont be enough to make me buy a season ticket, if I see the club is doing its absolute upmost to make the most of what it has, I may be inclined to attend a few games.

 

And more importantly, I want to see a plan that has a chance of re-establishing the club in the second tier of English football. And by establishing, I don't just mean getting promoted. I mean getting promoted, comfortably staying there, and competing. Whilst I accept the situation at the moment, I will not accept that it always have to be this way. I thought Failsworth stood a good chance of establishing us as a championship team. However, I was absolutely gutted when it was announced we were staying here, and am not convinced in the slightest that a redeveloped Boundary Park, that in all likelyhood will be a scaled down version of what we would have got at failsworth, can sustain a team in the championship. Whilst it might have done a few decades ago, it is a much stronger league these days.

 

In a nutshell I want a move forward attitude from the club, not a get by and survive attitude. Whilst I am happy Dickov seems to have this, I am not convinced those running the club off the field have this attitude at the moment. Which is why I decided to give money to Playershare, but I will not pay on the gate at the moment.

 

Hope that has answered your question

 

 

 

I'm not sure I buy into this 'matchday experience' stuff to be honest, though I agree with your first point about the catering thing and the club should be able to sort that fairly easily. I'm not sure what is happening with the Chronicle suite etc, but this new marketing girl seems to be pushing us generally in the right direction.

 

On the second point though, the club had invested no small amount of cold hard cash in the Failsworth project. You can argue all day long about who was at fault for it falling down, but the fact is that the club were set of providing new faciliteis at the location.

 

I'm also not sure why a redeveloped BP has to be a scaled down version of Failworth. In fact, it's a fair probability that we'll get a stadium (in time) with a larger capacity than that being talked about for Failsworth and moreover it will have character. It won't be a soul-less bowl like most new stadiums seem to be.

 

The club have already said that discussions to start building a new main stand are in progress, but all of these issues come back to the point of who is going to pay for this new 'forward thinking attitude'? And how can they attract somebody/a group who are going to want to invest in a club whose hardcore has dwindled from around 500 to 3500 inside 5 years?

[jimsleftfoot]

In what other everyday life situations can you walk into an area where your personality is left behind at the door because you know that, unlike in everyday life, for the next 90 minutes you don’t need to prove yourself in any way? In what other possible scenario do you find yourself leaping manically around in joy and hugging a total stranger? You don’t know this person, they don’t know you, and on exiting the turnstiles you go your separate ways, to different homes, and different lives. But that matters not as, through the shared love of the team, you were, however briefly, united, at one with each other. People may say they get the same experience watching a live match in the pub, but it can't be the same.

 

 

 

100% agreed Diego, but to quote 'the shared love of the team'. The punters we need through the door do not know of this and it will need more carrot to get them hooked.

[Diego_Sideburns]

I'm sorry, why all the sanctimony? Good grief. "If people don't want to go to games but want a team to do well, fair play."

 

 

Bravo sir. Now can we leave all this superiority here?

 

You seem intent on finding "sanctimony" and "superiority" where there is none intended.

 

I've explained what I get out of attending football. Zorro has explained his. What's the problem with that?

[Diego_Sideburns]

The key divide here is where people change from expecting to go unless there is something stopping them, to deciding when to go when they want to or circumstances suit. No judgement implied from me, being one of the latter. We will struggle without the former though.

 

This hits the nail on the head. If the Club has to rely on the dwindling number in the former category, plus Corney's lack of finance, it's doomed.

[Matt]

You seem intent on finding "sanctimony" and "superiority" where there is none intended.

So it's accidental? I'm not sure which I'd rather have.

 

Anyway, that's me.

[Lookers_Carl]

100% agreed Diego, but to quote 'the shared love of the team'. The punters we need through the door do not know of this and it will need more carrot to get them hooked.

 

 

This hits the nail on the head. If the Club has to rely on the dwindling number in the former category, plus Corney's lack of finance, it's doomed.

 

You have hit the nail on the head with this jlf and Diego, this is what I think you are having trouble grasping. Diego is absolutely right that in order to survive, the club needs the stayaways to come through the door. However, my point is, what I dont think Diego gets, is that the stayaways obviously do not have the 'oldham till I die' attitude or they would not have stopped attending. Yet we still need them to come through the gates, and as jlf correctly stated, more carrot is needed to get them hooked.

 

Blaming the clubs inability to compete on stayaway fans is merely trying to pass the buck on without addressing the clubs own failures. Anyone can argue to the hilt that 'if we had more fans coming things would be better'. But it is the clubs responisbility, as the business, to provide the 'stayaways', who are the paying punters and who do not havbe the 'Oldham till I die' attitude, with a good reason to come back. And helping a stagnant club thats going nowhere to just 'survive' is not a convincing reason to someone without the 'oldham till i die' attitude.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Lookers_Carl

[EASTLEY]

Ok thanks for clearing that up. So I will clarify that in this post, by this definition, those who 'did not give a :censored: in the first place' are not stayaways. I will also assume that someone who ued to go to Boundary Park but has now decided to follow City or United, whether it be watching them on Sky Sports or attending games, is not considered a 'stayaway' becuase they no longer claim to support the club.

 

But my point remains. If a stayaway by your definition, once attended and now do not, their must be a reason why. My point ultimately is that by blaming low attendances or 'stayaways' on Latics inability to compete, you are trying to deflect the clubs own failures onto others.

 

I will still use my example of a restaurant. A restaurant served substandard food in substandard environment and as a result struggled to say afloat as customers refuse to go, and go elsewhere. If the restaurant said that it is the regular customers fault we went under for not putting up with our substandard product in substandard environments they would be laughed at. If the restaurant tried to guilt trip former regular customers into coming back and paying good money for the same subsandard product in substandard envrionments they would be laughed at. So how do they get the customers back? Improve the food and/or the environment. The same rule applies to Latics.

 

But if you leave it too long you will eventually lose all interest and your former customers will spend the money they used to spend with you elsewhere, possibly on the same product. This also applies to Latics

 

The club needs to give the stayaways a reason to come back, address their own failures, and improve what they can offer to new and existing customers, or (building on JLF's example) not only do they risk many other stayaways to choose optons a and b over c) Latics, but they risk option c) Latics, on the list of things to do on a saturday becoming ommited, or replaced with c) Golf, or even worse, c) Eastlands/Old Trafford.

 

This responsibility lies with the club, and only the club.

 

 

This to me is a bit chicken and egg though especially with reponsibility.

The current owner does not have the funds necessary to keep bank rolling the club, though is making strides to attract new investment(he may have more funds that he may or may not invest once failsworth is sold back to the council etc and from the current housing development but at the moment is not cash rich).

 

However with the help of playershare etc seems to still be able to write cheques at expense to himself to keep the club going with a squad that should be able to compete at the current level. He could sell but there doesnt seem to be a massive lsit of investors coming forward to purchase the club, though again maybe the fact there is a plan to redevelop the ground may change this.

 

Therefore if latics are trying to improve the matchday experience with the development then perhaps we need to take that on good faith and invest in going to see them and accepting that everything won't change as quickly as we wish(I know we have had years/decaded in all of waiting).

 

If we don't invest now the club will take longer to put on an even keel and will be less attractive to investors who can take it forward, therefore the reason we need the hardcore and newish "stayaways" to come back with their cash is to give the club a chance of improving everything more quickly and thus attracting more people who are currently taking other options on a saturday.

 

The restaurant analagy(?) is great but unfortunately the owner doesnt currently have the funds to rectify the issues therefore needs some help to make the whole experience better, otherwise at best the time it takes to improve the environment/experience will take longer meaning more current supporters will become stayaways.

 

That is in my humble opinion where those of us that can make sacrifices should, and make the effort even when we all know everything isn't as we would like in the hope and expectation that this will help change things for the better more quickly.

[Diego_Sideburns]

You have hit the nail on the head with this jlf and Diego, this is what I think you are having trouble grasping. Diego is absolutely right that in order to survive, the club needs the stayaways to come through the door. However, my point is, what I dont think Diego gets, is that the stayaways obviously do not have the 'oldham till I die' attitude or they would not have stopped attending. Yet we still need them to come through the gates, and as jlf correctly stated, more carrot is needed to get them hooked.

 

Blaming the clubs inability to compete on stayaway fans is merely trying to pass the buck on without addressing the clubs own failures. Anyone can argue to the hilt that 'if we had more fans coming things would be better'. But it is the clubs responisbility, as the business, to provide the 'stayaways', who are the paying punters and who do not havbe the 'Oldham till I die' attitude, with a good reason to come back. And helping a stagnant club thats going nowhere to 'survive' is not a convincing reason.

 

We agree that the Club needs those who no longer have the 'Oldham 'til i die' attitude to come through the door. It follows that without them the snagnant Club cannot survive on dwindling gates, with its own shortcomings and without the willingness of the two wealthy Amigos to throw good money after bad.

 

Yes, it's the Club's responsibility to provide the carrot, but I don't believe that the 'Oldham 'til i die' attitude can be resurrected. Simple as that.