Tounkara

[Worksop_Blue]

I dont get this obsession with tonks, you'd think theres only 3 strikers to choose from from the world of football. Sure we havent got oddles of cash but why put what budget you do have on someone whose already been a failure. Someone said earlier he'll create alot of chances with his workrate. As far as Im concerned thats what you have creative midfielders and wingers for. Strikers are predominantly there to score goals. Kuqi got slated for the amount of chances he missed last season, yet with Tonks its seen as potential. Ultimately the end product is the same, hardly any goals scored.

 

Smith is a frustrating player. He gets in the right positions but misses a hell of alot. If we are going to perservere he needs a season on loan somewhere. Where he can play every week and gain more experience, he needs to learn his trade somewhere else.

[TheBigDog]

I dont get this obsession with tonks, you'd think theres only 3 strikers to choose from from the world of football. Sure we havent got oddles of cash but why put what budget you do have on someone whose already been a failure. Someone said earlier he'll create alot of chances with his workrate. As far as Im concerned thats what you have creative midfielders and wingers for. Strikers are predominantly there to score goals. Kuqi got slated for the amount of chances he missed last season, yet with Tonks its seen as potential. Ultimately the end product is the same, hardly any goals scored.

 

Smith is a frustrating player. He gets in the right positions but misses a hell of alot. If we are going to perservere he needs a season on loan somewhere. Where he can play every week and gain more experience, he needs to learn his trade somewhere else.

For me, pre-season is extremely important.

The likes of Smith, Mellor, Winchester, Hughes, Millar all have a chance to show that they can step up. Tounkara has had more opportunities than most of the aforementioned and has frustrated and impressed in equal measure. I would give the guy a go because I like him and do believe that he can come good - but ultimately it is all down to PD and his staff to determine whether Tonks is worth a season contract - watch this (or some other) space...

[bluehobbit]

Bit of side issue to main thread, but still relevant when discussing potential targets.

 

Why do people insist we are totally skint, and should always be looking at the very bottom (which tonk isn't far off) of the barrell with 'our budget'?

 

For a club of our size and current fan base we pay way above what 'our budget' suggests we can afford.

 

last season. Kuqi, mvoto, wes, simpson, diamond,ciask (whom we paid a bit for as well) all on very decent money. Not to mention all the loans.

 

Corney IMO is a master at making it look like we are one step away from the brink and maintains the illusion that we have got sweet FA

 

Yet we quietly sign players that if we were really that skint we should have no chance of signing.

 

Point being i think with a bit of thought we could do financailly better than tonk, and certainly as phil said if kuqi stays.

 

I think some of our fans need to wake up a bit we are small struggling club this season will be another battle against relegation

the club are asking fans to help out over the summer because they the club doesn't have the maintenance staff to help out. Several back room staff have been let go over the last few years (or not replaced when they have left). The ground is an awful state but apparently we aren't broke? Its all just part of some plan to lure the opposition into a false sense of security??

The playing staff are always going to be a priority when it comes to spending money but the club doesn't have massive funds available and we need to be sensible when signing players. We can afford the odd luxury maybe. Diamond was on a fair wedge as was Kuqi but we will have saved some cash not having to pay Taylor so that will free up some money for 1 or 2 players.

 

Tonk is a good realistic signing for us - in the right team he will get you 10-15 goals no problem. He got 7 in his first ever league season when he was clearly shattered by the new year and needed resting. If we can keep furman and Wes fit and bring in someone else of decent ability of the wings we should get goals (i hope)

[Hands on]

Hard to beat!!! I must have watched a different team. So many stupid goals were given away.

[Worksop_Blue]

Thats the thing isnt it, we have alot of young players already that have 'potential'. I think my biggest concerned is we'll end up relying on alot of young players, Tonks included if we get him, that have proven little and we end up going into a season with a squad based on nothing but hopefulness rather than proven ability. The likes of Winchester etc will be seen as squad players where as we're talking about Tonks leading the line playing week in week out. True a season long deal isnt a big gamble financially, but then we dont have alot of funds to play with. My perspective when we lose average players like Tonks and Reid is its an opportunity to get someone better to improve the squad. It shouldn't be a negative that hes ok he'll do, he might be alright. Lets get someone thats at least played afew full seasons for a start and has some noteworthy stats.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Worksop_Blue

[Zen]

I dont get this obsession with tonks, you'd think theres only 3 strikers to choose from from the world of football. Sure we havent got oddles of cash but why put what budget you do have on someone whose already been a failure. Someone said earlier he'll create alot of chances with his workrate. As far as Im concerned thats what you have creative midfielders and wingers for. Strikers are predominantly there to score goals. Kuqi got slated for the amount of chances he missed last season, yet with Tonks its seen as potential. Ultimately the end product is the same, hardly any goals scored.

 

Smith is a frustrating player. He gets in the right positions but misses a hell of alot. If we are going to perservere he needs a season on loan somewhere. Where he can play every week and gain more experience, he needs to learn his trade somewhere else.

 

How in the name of god is someone who's just turned 22 a failure? In his first season he was doing ok then went 17 games or so without a goal due to being burnt out, which would have happened with a lot of players who'd played such a high octane game in their first full season of professional football.

Yes your midfielders and wingers are there to create chances but nowadays your forwards do too, how many teams do you find who have 2 strikers who both hit 20+ goals? Not very many, because you often have a striker who gets 20ish and another who chips in with 10-12 and a few assists. As I said, Warne got what, 10 in both his seasons here? But he created a boatload of chances for others by chasing lost causes and harrying defenders into mistakes etc, so are we gonna sit here and slag Warne off for not being prolific enough?

 

In our side last season we couldn't create chances to save our lives, so if I got offered a striker who could create chances simply through working hard, I'd accept that offer, on the grounds that the more players we have who can create chances (whether through technical ability on the ball, or movement/pressure off it), the better.

 

Kuqi wasn't just slated for the chances he missed, he was slated for his attitude and decision making. Yes Tounkara misses chances and makes the wrong decision at times, but the difference is he's just turned 22 whereas Kuqi is approaching 36.

 

I don't get what the problem is with us taking a chance on him, I don't think he'll be asking that much £ wise, he seems to have his head screwed on, and will work hard for the team. He is rough around the edges but I think there's potential in him. No one is saying he'll be a week in, week out starter for us, but on a 12 month deal with the option of another year he's worth a shot. If it doesn't work out, he goes in 12 months. If he fires in 12 and gets a few assists, we can take out the option of the second year. If he does even better, we can take up the safety option of the second year and maybe get a few grand for him.

 

I see what you're saying with regards to strikers being there to score goals, but to write a 22 year old off as a 'failure' because his strike rate isn't madly impressive is ludicrous, time is still on his side.

[Worksop_Blue]

How in the name of god is someone who's just turned 22 a failure? In his first season he was doing ok then went 17 games or so without a goal due to being burnt out, which would have happened with a lot of players who'd played such a high octane game in their first full season of professional football.

Yes your midfielders and wingers are there to create chances but nowadays your forwards do too, how many teams do you find who have 2 strikers who both hit 20+ goals? Not very many, because you often have a striker who gets 20ish and another who chips in with 10-12 and a few assists. As I said, Warne got what, 10 in both his seasons here? But he created a boatload of chances for others by chasing lost causes and harrying defenders into mistakes etc, so are we gonna sit here and slag Warne off for not being prolific enough?

 

In our side last season we couldn't create chances to save our lives, so if I got offered a striker who could create chances simply through working hard, I'd accept that offer, on the grounds that the more players we have who can create chances (whether through technical ability on the ball, or movement/pressure off it), the better.

 

Kuqi wasn't just slated for the chances he missed, he was slated for his attitude and decision making. Yes Tounkara misses chances and makes the wrong decision at times, but the difference is he's just turned 22 whereas Kuqi is approaching 36.

 

I don't get what the problem is with us taking a chance on him, I don't think he'll be asking that much £ wise, he seems to have his head screwed on, and will work hard for the team. He is rough around the edges but I think there's potential in him. No one is saying he'll be a week in, week out starter for us, but on a 12 month deal with the option of another year he's worth a shot. If it doesn't work out, he goes in 12 months. If he fires in 12 and gets a few assists, we can take out the option of the second year. If he does even better, we can take up the safety option of the second year and maybe get a few grand for him.

 

I see what you're saying with regards to strikers being there to score goals, but to write a 22 year old off as a 'failure' because his strike rate isn't madly impressive is ludicrous, time is still on his side.

 

 

Im not saying Tonks whole career is a failure! I like the guy and I appreciate he's rough round the edges etc etc. Thats exactly my point I just worry we are going to get a young player with little experience and hes going to be the best we've got.

I hear what your saying about warne and strikers working in tandum to create chances I get all that. But it seems a tad naiive to me to buy a striker based not on his ability not to score goals or strike rate but that he might create. Taking a chance on him is fine, as long as hes not going to be all we have. We already have the likes of Smith that are still learning. Do we really have to get someone who hasnt played alot of football, hasnt scored alot of goals because he MIGHT be good in afew years. If we could afford Kuqi surely we can afford something more.

[philliggi]

People keep referring to "the player v Carlisle". have you forgotten the fact that he didn't score from January onwards in his first season, or that dickov saw fit not to play him in a team that couldn't score for toffee? one swallow doesn't make a summer, as one performance doesn't make a good player

[HarryBosch]

As poor as he became from the January, we know he looked a very good player prior to that.

 

A year or two older, stronger & more experienced, popular with the other players, and Kuqi yet to confirm he's staying makes it a no brainer at the right price.

[bluehobbit]

he has put in more than one decent performance in his time with us the Carlisle one was just the most recent, the player we saw v Carlislewas fit, sharp quick and seemed to have some confidence about him - as opposed to the guy who looked clumsy and tired when he was played week in week out and he was out of form.

 

Its a good signing if it comes off, we have seen the positives from him and while he needs work - he defiantly offers us something. For the right price ill have him and be pleased hes signed

[RobOAFC]

Thats the thing isnt it, we have alot of young players already that have 'potential'. I think my biggest concerned is we'll end up relying on alot of young players, Tonks included if we get him, that have proven little and we end up going into a season with a squad based on nothing but hopefulness rather than proven ability. The likes of Winchester etc will be seen as squad players where as we're talking about Tonks leading the line playing week in week out. True a season long deal isnt a big gamble financially, but then we dont have alot of funds to play with. My perspective when we lose average players like Tonks and Reid is its an opportunity to get someone better to improve the squad. It shouldn't be a negative that hes ok he'll do, he might be alright. Lets get someone thats at least played afew full seasons for a start and has some noteworthy stats.

 

Proven ability? We aint gunna get many with proven ability into the team. We can't afford the proven ability. We'll sign players who are young and have potential.

 

In our side last season we couldn't create chances to save our lives, so if I got offered a striker who could create chances simply through working hard, I'd accept that offer, on the grounds that the more players we have who can create chances (whether through technical ability on the ball, or movement/pressure off it), the better.

This myth we couldn't create chances to save our lives annoys me. Go check the stats from games last season, and you'll see we've had plenty of chances. Also remember the stats won't include stuff like crosses that missed a player by a couple of inches. We created plenty of chances in each game to win it by a couple of goals.

[slystallone]

People keep referring to "the player v Carlisle". have you forgotten the fact that he didn't score from January onwards in his first season, or that dickov saw fit not to play him in a team that couldn't score for toffee? one swallow doesn't make a summer, as one performance doesn't make a good player

 

I think Phil, people are using the Carlisle example as it's a very recent one. You could throw in a Dagenham away or a Hudderfield at home if you wanted but they were in the previous season - the Carlisle example is the most pertinent as it's the most recent one....It's being used to show what he can do & is capable of right now; not back-dating an example from a previous season.

 

If we were to sign A.N Other striker - there would be lots of posts on here with people saying similar - "he had a great against us in 2007" and the like....and this is no different really; it's just in this case - we have the added 'bonus' if you will of having had the player on loan in 2 seperate loan spells.

 

For me, I used the example of the Carlisle game as it's a recent showcase of what Tonk is capable of, if used correctly.

He got the ball to his feet (or chest at the very least) instead of pumped up to his head (not his game), he was able to take a touch and turn & run at defenders - and when he does that, well, you saw the reaction of the Carlisle defenders - they :censored: themselves.

He was powerful, fit & looked very motivated. If we could keep that mental & physical state, and play the ball up to him as he clearly wants it, then we've a "Wrecking Ball" of a striker who could rip this division a new one. If the right strike partner is played with him also, I see good things for us.

 

I keep checking the free transfer market, and TBH, no-one is jumping out at me in the same way a free signing of Oumare is. I want us to sign him as I rate him. I, tbh, I want us to use his talents - not somebody else!

[Worksop_Blue]

Proven ability? We aint gunna get many with proven ability into the team. We can't afford the proven ability. We'll sign players who are young and have potential.

 

 

This myth we couldn't create chances to save our lives annoys me. Go check the stats from games last season, and you'll see we've had plenty of chances. Also remember the stats won't include stuff like crosses that missed a player by a couple of inches. We created plenty of chances in each game to win it by a couple of goals.

 

We'll only sign players who are young and have potential?? Nothing more? What your describing is the reserve side. Might as well not bother signing anyone. if you arent going to pay money for a half decent striker then you might as well put trust in your reserves or else whats the point of having them? I agree with you on the chances created, I lost count of the games I saw where we created but couldnt finish.

Im not expecting championship strikers for 500k maybe someone whose been released or contract is nearing its end whose played afew seasons and scored afew goals over a period of time at a decent level. We're still after Wes and Robbie, we've signed Furman, so there must be some money about interms of what we can offer in wages, Taylors gone amongst others.

We arent the only small club in this league theres plenty of others who seem to compete ok.

All Im saying is if we have to rely on a young lad to hit the net every week we are going to struggle or if we're only going to stick him in the reserves for half the season cause of burnout, not good enough, still learning (delete where applicable) then you might as well play Smith or any other reserve or youth striker and give them the experience.

[Haribo_man]

Hard to beat!!! I must have watched a different team. So many stupid goals were given away.

 

dont get me wrong we were piss poor at times and conceded stupid goals wjth the majority being from set pieces or crosses.

 

My point was responding to the fact that our main failing was scoring goals not keeping them out which is backed up with the Kuqi goal drought. We didnt get properly turned over that often and would have been times if Wes was fit or if we had the industry of Tonk alongside a Kuqi we may have scored more and bagged the points.

[lancy lad]

I am sorry, I know I will be in the minority but I agree with Philliggi and Macca on this one!

 

While I agree that this kid will run through walls, he has the touch of a rapist and can not finish for toffee!

 

Put him up front with a potentially over worked Kuqi next season and they will struggle for 15-20 between them!

 

If we sign him, we need to get rid of Kuqi......... too similar!

I am big and ugly enough to admit that I have changed my mind after thinking about my quote a couple of days ago!

 

While I do still think him and Kuqi may be too similar, I do actually think the kid could potentially do a job!

 

He may also be a much hungrier young chap knowing that he does not have the safety net of Sunderland reserves to go back to if it doesn't work out.

 

I have never doubted his commitment, more his composure.

 

12 month contract with the option of another year for me!

[RobOAFC]

We'll only sign players who are young and have potential?? Nothing more? What your describing is the reserve side. Might as well not bother signing anyone. if you arent going to pay money for a half decent striker then you might as well put trust in your reserves or else whats the point of having them? I agree with you on the chances created, I lost count of the games I saw where we created but couldnt finish.

Im not expecting championship strikers for 500k maybe someone whose been released or contract is nearing its end whose played afew seasons and scored afew goals over a period of time at a decent level. We're still after Wes and Robbie, we've signed Furman, so there must be some money about interms of what we can offer in wages, Taylors gone amongst others.

We arent the only small club in this league theres plenty of others who seem to compete ok.

All Im saying is if we have to rely on a young lad to hit the net every week we are going to struggle or if we're only going to stick him in the reserves for half the season cause of burnout, not good enough, still learning (delete where applicable) then you might as well play Smith or any other reserve or youth striker and give them the experience.

You mis-read my post. I said we aint gunna get many with proven ability into the team. Yes we'll sign a couple with proven ability, most likely to be Wes, Morais and Simmo re-signing, possibly Kuqi and then one defender who's proven perhaps. The rest will be younger players with potential.

[De_La_Vega]

Surprised to see any debate on this one - in my opinion he is exactly what the club needs. With him as our target man we were flying high last year, and although he fell away I rather think that the form earlier in the season is a better indication of his potential.

 

Very pleased if we get him in for a year.

[danoafc]

Edit - Read to the end of the thread before adding a post! Dur!

Edited June 8, 2012 by danoafc