My views on tonight

[oafcprozac]

The issue here for me is Dickov's dithering...

 

(1) He brings in young Brown who plays all Pre-season looks like he's forged a good understanding with Croft, has pace to burn and is able to compensate for Croft's lack of tracking back. Then Byrne is signed, replaces Brown and is an out and out defender. We immediately lose the RB's overlapping.

 

(2) Bouzanis finishes the season with some decent displays, and starts pre-season after Cisak spends most of it injured. Towards the end despite Cisak's lack of match practice and looking decidedly shaky in the games he plays (CIty aside) he is given the nod at first-choice. Boozy should have started the season, he's had a full pre-season and deserved the shirt, it was up to Alex to win it back. Too easy for players to nail down their spot.

 

(3) M'Changama is not a winger

 

(4) After chasing a big lump all summer, he changes direction and signs a speedster, but during pre-season plays a host of triallists in favour of HIS signings, Smith and Taylor.

 

(5) The moment they switched it around last night, we should have done the same. Tarky should have come off for Connor Brown with Byrne switching inside, and the ineffective Simpson should have made way for Hughes, with M'Changama making a three inside to track 17's runs who along with their 7 ripped us a new one. With Brown's pace Antonio would not have had the freedom of the park. JYM should have been marking COG man for man not biscuit boy Tarky. Furman could have still pushed on to support Slew on the shoulder.

 

I was frustrated with Dickov, yes we've a weak squad but that does not excuse his lack of ability in changing things. He's started his third season and still looks like a rabbit trapped in headlights when things fall apart. He talks a really good game but has a Plan A and that's it.

 

The moment they pulled it back to 2-1 I knew that was it, Tarky spent most of the second half with his head down and his token effort in closing down for the 4th was pathetic, you're a pro footballer son, get stuck in!!!

 

It's not all doom and gloom, some of the stuff we played for the first 35 minutes (after which Wednesday were back in it imo) was great, but we struggle to keep the high tempo. We're supposedly fitter but were led a merry dance at times, and the continual high balls up to Simpson were brainless.

 

The missed penalty was one of the turning points, if they'd pulled one back at that point it would have been a travesty but then Dickov's HT team talk would have been far different than 'carry on'. Well I hope anyway! Of course the real turning point was Croft's miss, great save by Kirkland proving why he went for such big money but tbh Croft should have broke the net with it. Cisak immediately after loses the plot and it's game on. After Wes was denied we started to feel sorry for us and the capitulation began.

 

I'm not too down hearted as I expect a season of struggle, and the first half was mostly excellent but I want more from the manager, he's tried to fix one or two things that weren't broken and overlooked areas that needed urgent attention. He must bring in a LW and Big Lump striker before the loan deadline and possibly another CB.

 

My Team for Saturday

 

4321

Bouzanis

Brown

Byrne

JYM

Grounds

M'Changama

Wes

Furman

Croft

Simpson

Slew

 

But we know Dickov will go with the same line up as last night, I expect MK to walk this league this year and if we show the same frailties at the back as last night, it could be a hammering on Saturday. For me the season starts next Tuesday v Walsall.

Edited August 14, 2012 by oafcprozac

[oafcprozac]

Two of our players there failing to challenge. Neither of them Tarky.

 

Tarky was :censored:e on the fourth though.

 

Tarky's another Danny Hall simples…what's Will Haining doing these days?

Edited August 14, 2012 by oafcprozac

[singe]

For me, a lot of points have been raised that I would ahve said.

But is was a the proverbioal game of two halves. I think more so, Dave Jones said he thought his team could come in and walk the game and got spanked, and only got out of the traps seconif half..

WE got out of the trap, but then thought we had it sewn up and done enough, and seemed to think well we've let one in we'll still be OK rather than shutting up shop agaisnt a better team

 

And yes I think we should ahve switched to counter their switch.

And some of the issues remain, like switching off, and the frail defence, yet we still need a striker and LW.

Worryingly, the same as last season.

[oafc1955]

We never.put a foot on the ball second half and Wednesday grew in confidence as we lost the ball so much. It's easy to blame the defence but we very poor up top and in the middle and that cotributed to our downfall.

 

We kept hoofing the ball up to Simpson who won a fair few headers but unfortunatly not directed into the danger areas.

 

If I could sign a player today that would make the difference it wouldn't be a winger or a defender it'd be Leon Clarke!!

[oafcprozac]

I said that last night we needed a bit of guile in the centre of the park. The high tempo worked for a while, but then it contributed to our down fall with us hitting long balls and consistently giving the ball away. We needed someone to put their foot on the ball, someone like a Dale Stephens could have been a match-winner for us last night. Especially after their first goal unfortunately we have naive players and a very naive manager that has a Plan A and when that fails we're struggling….

Edited August 14, 2012 by oafcprozac

[Oh Heck C-Beck]

Wednesday gave us too much time and space in the first half. From what I saw we are a good attacking team and good with the ball so that was a mistake on their part.

 

Obviously they have better and stronger and fitter players, so with the tactical switch and the bollocking at half time they gave us no time and we fell apart, that is how I saw it.

 

Really don't like having 2 young centre backs, I would use Tarky as sub with some experience next to Mvoto. I also would love to have an experienced centre mid to bring on when we need some extra legs in the middle of the park. The bench is worryingly thin.

 

Thought Wednesday kept Simpson out of the game which didnt help us

[oafcprozac]

To be fair Wednesday came back into it after about 30-35 mins with Jones' switches. Their momentum continued into the 2nd half...

[Keepingthe Faith]

The battle was won and lost in the midfield, first half we won it Wes and Furman bossed it almost looking like the famous Yard-dogs. Second half was won by D. Jones' tactical nous nullifying our plan A.

We still looked capable of and indeed should have added two more goals in the second half. (In which case we would be celebrating the win) Had PD responded to the obvious midfield problem by putting more bodies in there. It cold have been a different story. This would also have given the defence an option to pass the ball out instead of the horrible hoofs up-field that just came straight back at us the defence wouldn't have come under the non-stop pressure and buckled like it did.

[losesome]

You're right about where the problems were, but your solution is wrong.

 

Jones changed Wednesday's style of play and we found ourselves outnumbered there towards the end of the second half. We were 2-0 up but did nothing to counter this.

 

If we'd strung 5 across the middle we might, and it is only a might, have frustrated them. If we'd subbed both Wes and Furman who, seriously, are you suggesting would have replaced them and strengthened us?

 

Last night boiled down to the managers' tactical nouse. Dave Jones outclassed Paul Dickov. Jones reacted. Dickov didn't.

 

Absolutely spot on , The 2 1st half subs completely changed the game.

The only way PD could and should have responded was take Tarky off , switch Byrne to Centre and bring Brown on at RB.

Take Charabang off and bring somebody like Winchester in Midfield.

 

Obvious to a lot of supporters can see it but not PD which is his big failing.

He tries to rescue a situation ie go 3 at the back etc when it is too late.

He doesn't have the ability to see what is developing . It was obvious 10 min before half time what was happening but PD didn't react until 15 min from time.

 

At the end of the day Wed were a far classier side , tactically Jones got it right in the end and there was a lot of encouraging

signs . However , the two things that will determine our season - Injuries and PD's tactics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LaticsPete]

croft is FAT .........END OF...............

 

You never saw Franny Lee ? Pretty much the same bodyshape - it's not fat.

[Stevie_J]

Before I get started, M'changama apart, I was impressed by our performance first half, but...

 

I think more than not doing the right things in certain areas of pitch last night, the reason we lost was because the team are as psychologically fragile as they have been for years. As soon as we conceded a very sloppy goal, they lost the plot and couldn't keep possession, inviting wave after wave of Wednesday attacks. It was only a matter of time before they scored again. And again. And again.

 

This has been a feature for season upon season and arguably is symptomatic of the youth in the side (although plenty of youngsters have plenty of confidence in themselves). At 2-1, they still had a lead but were completely devoid of belief that they could keep it. It was, frankly, pathetic.

 

The club should be inviting maddog to work, pro bono.

[slystallone]

I've said this on the Tarky thread - I think I watch different games to some on here.

 

I watched that game twice last night, once live and then again when I got home on sky+ (sad I know, I need to have a quite word with myself).

 

 

In no way should Tarky be made a scapegoat for the loss - apart from a joint culpability for the 3rd goal; he didn't actually much wrong - apart from getting burned by Antonio twice - the same Antonio who has left players for dead for 2 or 3 years now due to his blistering pace - no disgrace there IMO.

 

 

We played well last night. Actually at the game, I thought we were poor 2nd half - but weirdly watching it back - we weren't actually too bad. We still looked a threat and TBH, against League One (or league 2 or lower in the other cups) 'Keepers - certainly Wes would have scored; and possibly Croft too - cracking saves from a lad who, but for having a glass back - would have far more England Caps than 1 and be still playing at the highest level.

 

 

We - and by we I mean the management - didn't react at all to the changes made by the opposition. Dave Jones is cracking manager, I've always thought that, and but for that mentally unhinged lady making those accusations against him, would still be managing a Premier League side IMO a la a David Moyes.

 

He changed it before half-time, making a sub that involved a change of shape for them. We didn't react to it.

 

PD should have congratulated the lads at HT; but given them a strong word of warning about what to expect in the second half; especially the 1st 10 or 15mins.

 

 

IMO he should have changed his tactics & he didn't. I would have not made a sub, but asked Simpson to drop into midfield for the 1st 10mins or so to shore us up for the onslaught. Going 4-5-1 would have meant Wes could have been deeper and picking up Picjnic (or what the :censored: with the long hair is called), leaving Furman & Simpson to go toe-to-toe with Semedo & Coke. But - we kept it the same, and got over-run in midfield. That was IMo the fault last night - that in individual errors from Cisak twice, Grounds once and Tarky jointly with Ciskas 2nd one.

 

The 1st half was great though - and, if we can achieve that level of performance consistently; we'll beat plenty of league one opposition; even with errors at the back

[Zorrro]

I may be interpreting things differently to you, but I've not seen anyone blaming the loss on Tarkowski; what I have seen is people raising some very valid concerns about his overall performance.

[slystallone]

I may be interpreting things differently to you, but I've not seen anyone blaming the loss on Tarkowski; what I have seen is people raising some very valid concerns about his overall performance.

 

I'm skim reading granted, but I thought plenty on the Tarky thread & on this one are laying the blame at his door.

 

I think the manager was at fault to a large extent

[TheBigDog]

Last nights performance was evident all pre season. Some fantastic football from the off (30 mins). Some of the best pass and movement in many a year on show. Then once a bit of fatigue kicks in the ability to concentrate lowers and so does the shape.

 

Dave Jones did improve his side early after the second goal. Nadine wasn't fit and asked to come off, so that passenger was replaced. He hauled off the ineffective Maguire and pushed Pecnic up front to partner O'Grady, the latter doing his usual against Latics. Half time saw Jones obviously read the riot act and one massive save from Croft sealed our fate. The midfield lost it's battle as Youssef was never in the battle, Croft tired and whilst still one of our better players couldn't cover back helping Byrne has he had done. This exposed our soft under belly allowing Tarky & Big Jean to be out muscled on each and every occasion. O'Grady, JJ & Antonio bullied them easilly on every occasion. Game over.

 

Spot on - outmuscled and bullied - that sums it up for me - O'Grady's second was a prime example - a push on Tarkowski which gave O'Grady the time and room to pull off, turn and score. Even at the death - Smith should have scored with his header but was outmuscled by his marker.

The midfield was overrun in the second half and Mchangama should have been replaced far earlier.

 

Many positives can be drawn from our opening half but also much to be concerned about - Byrne is solid defensively but offers little going forward. Tarkowski for all his undoubted talent still has a lot to learn. Slew - looks lively but needs to look up occasionally to spot the man in a better position. Again heads seemed to drop when the going got tougher.

 

We were beaten by a far bigger, stronger, quicker team - and we will come up against a few like that this season I am sure - we need to learn how to deal with these sides and PD has to be bolder in his approach and quicker to react.

 

MK Dons will be a tough opener - we can compete but already it is looking like a long old season!

 

Forget about the history - let's get down to the first match in numbers and get behind the team.

 

Edit>> That was my 2,000th post on this board - compared to some a mere splash in the ocean but a lot of comment passed for the cause

Edited August 14, 2012 by TheBigDog

[De_La_Vega]

Prozac - the ineffective Simpson? Harsh.

 

Involved in our best stuff first half and given no service in the second.

 

As for Tarky, if course it wasn't his fault last night, but the warning signs are that there are a few too many mistakes that don't seem to be being removed from his game.

 

Plus, three Latics players could have walked yesterday including Tarky, for stupid tackles with both feet off the ground. Poor.

[oafcprozac]

From 35 minutes onwards he was, as we resorted to playing long balls up to him. Also Dickov wants him in the box he wasn't for two thirds of the game.

 

As for the tackles, they bullied us off the park last December, we tried to be more physical - then O'Grady came on and gave a masterclass in centre-forward play in putting himself about. Shez and Penney want :censored:ing shooting for not giving the lad a chance….

 

Note to Matt Smith, you're probably 8 inches taller than O'Grady, i've given you a chance lad and backed you up time and time again, but man the :censored: up! Watch O'Grady and that's what you should be doing!!!!! Beginning to think that young Matt is a bit of a pansy….

[Latics_Fanatic]

From 35 minutes onwards he was, as we resorted to playing long balls up to him. Also Dickov wants him in the box he wasn't for two thirds of the game.

 

As for the tackles, they bullied us off the park last December, we tried to be more physical - then O'Grady came on and gave a masterclass in centre-forward play in putting himself about. Shez and Penney want :censored:ing shooting for not giving the lad a chance….

 

Note to Matt Smith, you're probably 8 inches taller than O'Grady, i've given you a chance lad and backed you up time and time again, but man the :censored: up! Watch O'Grady and that's what you should be doing!!!!! Beginning to think that young Matt is a bit of a pansy….

 

Course he's a pansy, he eats Mango and Lime Nandos chicken...

[slystallone]

Now I've been one of the one's on here prepared to back the lad and plea for time, but this just about sums it up for me now:

 

Note to Matt Smith, you're probably 8 inches taller than O'Grady, i've given you a chance lad and backed you up time and time again, but man the :censored: up! Watch O'Grady and that's what you should be doing!!!!! Beginning to think that young Matt is a bit of a pansy….

 

 

 

 

I've now come to conclusion that he just doesn't have it in him to be the big man up front his size & frame should make him ideal for.

 

I'm not going to post in full the Steve Morison thing at Millwall because I've posted it few times - but Smith does need to man-up & get nasty.

 

He's too placid and well, nice out on the pitch. I'm not saying he needs to be a Kevin Muscat type character, but he does need to punch his weight and put himself about. I'd take him collecting 10 yellows this season for barging, banging, smacking into CB's - that's fine for me, as he should be doing that & he doesn't.

 

The game had gone. But young Connor Hughes put a cracker into the box, Smith was favourite and should have scored. He didn't because he let himself get knocked out of position by being a fanny.

 

Yep it's 10mins here, 5mins there - but cumulitively, I've seen enough. He's not a league one player. He doesn't have it in him to dominate, to be forceful and to be a bit ugly in his play. He should score the chances he gets; but somehow he contrives to miss. Not got it I'm afraid.

 

I rarely blast players on here (and in fairness I'm not slagging him off for the sake of it here either), but I think we need to cut our losses on the lad now; not wait until the summer. Season long loan with the team paying his wages - freeing up the bag of peanuts and box of cornflakes he's earning, to be used to bring in someone who has a chance of effecting games for us.

Edited August 14, 2012 by slystallone

[IceStationLatic]

We should have made a sub as soon as they did in the first half? Look at our bench guys but, moreover, going 4-5-1 (cue negative accusations post match about not trying to kill off the match; PD, booooo) might not have led to the chances Wes and Crofty had to almost kill the game off. Just because they didn't score, that means not making a substitution was wrong?!!

 

The reason we lost was that we conceded two sloppy and avoidable goals to let them back in it before their superior quality took over. Having said that we still created chances - but on a side issue, why couldn't Smith win that header at the death despite being in front of his man and taller even if the defender had an arm round his neck - frustrating. As PD has said, he needs to be a bully.

 

I think PD is right in that we stopped doing the things that had been working. The right service to Slew which then created more space for the midfield and Simpson to get on the ball.

 

When Slew failed to feed in Croft or Simpson for simple one-on-ones in the second half, I hope that's not a sign of egoism. But if he keeps scoring, he'll get away with it perhaps.

 

M'Changama looked fine on the left in pre-season, adding good passing options - rather than having another out and out winger and getting mullered in central midfield as a result - the good old England way. Should we abandon this just because it hasn't worked after one game? I think the idea is to have two banks of four in defence, with Simmo helping out, but then a lot more positional flexibility on the ball - to counter the drawback of 4-4-2; that it's too static.

 

But I agree about the issues about overlapping full-backs to compensate for the width. I thought Brown worked well in pre-season because he could do this which meant Croft couldn't be marked out the game so easily. Must admit I thought Byrne would start in central defence. Maybe he got the nod because of Wednesday's height and physicality for set pieces - Brown would have got bullied? You can't win, because then they had Antonio's pace. We kept him quiet for a while at least.

 

The worry is mental fragility. When you concede daft goals, it makes you more likely to concede more. We'll learn a lot more about the character of this season's time on Saturday. I just hope they don't play like rocks for 89 minutes and then concede a late winner to nullify all the positives and effort!

[Crusoe]

I don't think we've got a fundamentally poor squad, but it's paper thin and there's too much reliance on inexperienced youngsters.

 

Cisak and Bouzanis are perfectly competent League One keepers. Cisak made a poor mistake last night but if he didn't make any he'd already be at a higher level. I'm not writing him off based on one mistake. And Bouzanis should be ready to step into his shoes if needed.

 

Byrne and Grounds look like reliable defenders. Mvoto is error prone but I think his performances are very closely tied into whoever he's playing with; he and Tarkowski just don't have that maturity or understanding and as a result weren't supporting each other. Mvoto needs a wiser, calmer head alongside him and then I think he'll improve. I'd put Byrne there and risk the lack of pace. As I said before, I don't like slating players, and the responsibility for Tarkowski's 'mare has to sit just as much with Dickov and Corney - he is young, he needs more time to develop under less pressure. Last night was too much of a deep end for him. Maybe he will improve, maybe he won't cut it, but either way expecting him to be the finished article is unreasonable.

 

Wes and Furman are fine at this level and were running the show for most of the first half. Nothing wrong there, and Mchangama gives us a slightly different option and cover for them. Croft is off the pace but like a late career Beckham made up for it with effort and set pieces. He needs pace behind him to cover though (i.e. Brown in for Byrne in for Tarkowski). We do need a proper left winger or the side will be unbalanced - opposition teams can ignore our left as it doesn't threaten them much and focus on outpacing Croft and Byrne. Simpson and Slew are also sufficient for League One to me.

 

So I don't think it's the end of the world, providing we can sort out a more experienced defensive line-up and an outlet on the left. I don't think that means four or five more players needed (and I don't think we can afford four or five experienced players). It needs a defensive reshuffle, a left winger in, and a lot of luck with form and injuries. That squad is paper thin and the bench doesn't look strong.

 

The other thing we need is some fresh ideas from Dickov. When clearly overrun we had one straight swap (Hughes for Mchangama) which whilst I thought it might open things up was never going to solve Wednesday overrunning us through the middle, and then the utterly hopeless move to bring Smith on. I like the lad but am increasingly convinced he isn't up to League One (I think Sly and Prozac nailed it with him). With the benefit of hindsight I'd like to have seen something else tried - going to three at the back left Tarkowski and Mvoto with less help and didn't solve the midfield problem. Maybe going 4-3-3 with Brown at right back, Byrne replacing Tarkowski, Mchangama moving into the middle to bolster numbers, and Taylor coming on for Croft so that he and Slew could stretch their defence and pin the fullbacks back. (Not to criticise Croft, but in the second half he was getting the runaround and much less effective.)

[slystallone]

We should have made a sub as soon as they did in the first half? Look at our bench guys but, moreover, going 4-5-1 (cue negative accusations post match about not trying to kill off the match; PD, booooo) might not have led to the chances Wes and Crofty had to almost kill the game off. Just because they didn't score, that means not making a substitution was wrong?!!

 

The reason we lost was that we conceded two sloppy and avoidable goals to let them back in it before their superior quality took over. Having said that we still created chances - but on a side issue, why couldn't Smith win that header at the death despite being in front of his man and taller even if the defender had an arm round his neck - frustrating. As PD has said, he needs to be a bully.

 

I think PD is right in that we stopped doing the things that had been working. The right service to Slew which then created more space for the midfield and Simpson to get on the ball.

 

When Slew failed to feed in Croft or Simpson for simple one-on-ones in the second half, I hope that's not a sign of egoism. But if he keeps scoring, he'll get away with it perhaps.

 

M'Changama looked fine on the left in pre-season, adding good passing options - rather than having another out and out winger and getting mullered in central midfield as a result - the good old England way. Should we abandon this just because it hasn't worked after one game? I think the idea is to have two banks of four in defence, with Simmo helping out, but then a lot more positional flexibility on the ball - to counter the drawback of 4-4-2; that it's too static.

 

But I agree about the issues about overlapping full-backs to compensate for the width. I thought Brown worked well in pre-season because he could do this which meant Croft couldn't be marked out the game so easily. Must admit I thought Byrne would start in central defence. Maybe he got the nod because of Wednesday's height and physicality for set pieces - Brown would have got bullied? You can't win, because then they had Antonio's pace. We kept him quiet for a while at least.

 

The worry is mental fragility. When you concede daft goals, it makes you more likely to concede more. We'll learn a lot more about the character of this season's time on Saturday. I just hope they don't play like rocks for 89 minutes and then concede a late winner to nullify all the positives and effort!

 

Good post.

 

I disagree about the change in formation needed to counter their change - I think at 2 nil, we should have done it to give us a solid 10/15mins at the start of the second half. But, he/we didn't and the game went.

 

We move on.

 

Saturday is a test; a big one. Can we bounce back? Can PD learn from last night? Can we cut down on the individual errors? Tune in on saturday to find out.

[BP1960]

Why did Smith need reams of paper instructions before coming as substitute and missing 2 corner kicks in the process ? surely he knows his job, for a big guy it's simple - out muscle defenders and score from crosses. (Oh I forgot, O'Grady did just that).

Throw the tactics boards into the nearest canal PD and think on your feet.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BP1960

[oafcprozac]

I made my feelings clear to PD last night, bin the clip board, just make the sub and get him into the box - modern football really is :censored:e sometimes. Why over complicate it? We were 3-2 down, it was simple get the ball in the box and get Smith in there. Managers and coaches make me weep sometimes. Even worse we have the vitamin supplement bitch giving out footballing instructions!

[Stevie_J]

I made my feelings clear to PD last night, bin the clip board, just make the sub and get him into the box - modern football really is :censored:e sometimes. Why over complicate it? We were 3-2 down, it was simple get the ball in the box and get Smith in there. Managers and coaches make me weep sometimes. Even worse we have the vitamin supplement bitch giving out footballing instructions!

Out of interest, how is she (whoever she is) a bitch? And what makes her less qualified than you?