losesome Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Now the full facts are being divulged about Hillsborough does the law relating to all seater now need looking at. It now appears unbelievably that they didn't have a safety certificate for this ground at the time so based on what happened at an illegal venue all clubs had to go all seater. Do clubs now have a claim against the FA for the costs involved in having to comply with this and surely it is now wide open to a challenge the rule. I know the victims families have to be looked after first but everything surrounding Hillsborough and all the after effects from various authorities are now a sham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 No chance in hell of there being safe standing brought back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shefflatic Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 not around back in the day, but seriously can someone tell me why the would WANT to stand at a football match?? it is quite unpleasant on the lower back and the legs after a hard days graft if its a night game (when doing so at Doncaster at Belle Vue years ago) having to stand for nigh on 2 1/2 hours pressed against people, arms flailing all around, people barging into you at ever opportunity and sods law a lanky get will be stood in front of you so - aside from the bits you can see on the pitch by ducking this way and that to peer over shoulders - you can't watch the game at all, not accounting for all the banging and barging if a goal goes in. Sitting down and then jumping up at a goal/chance missed etc is part of the fun for me - why be stood up and then spoil the moment of scoring by already being upright?? I know people were of an era where standing was the norm, but give me a seat and an unobstructed view of the pitch any day of the week rather than a step of concrete...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 not around back in the day, but seriously can someone tell me why the would WANT to stand at a football match?? it is quite unpleasant on the lower back and the legs after a hard days graft if its a night game (when doing so at Doncaster at Belle Vue years ago) having to stand for nigh on 2 1/2 hours pressed against people, arms flailing all around, people barging into you at ever opportunity and sods law a lanky get will be stood in front of you so - aside from the bits you can see on the pitch by ducking this way and that to peer over shoulders - you can't watch the game at all, not accounting for all the banging and barging if a goal goes in. Sitting down and then jumping up at a goal/chance missed etc is part of the fun for me - why be stood up and then spoil the moment of scoring by already being upright?? I know people were of an era where standing was the norm, but give me a seat and an unobstructed view of the pitch any day of the week rather than a step of concrete...... As so often happens in these debates i'll refer to the German model currently used (can't be arsed finding pictures) which eliminates any chance of crushing which use to occur. I don't think anyone in their right minds wants a return to way the way terraces use to be and looked like. However plenty of people still wish to stand and the way the current German models work it can be done in a very health and saftey way (just think adding handrails on each row just in front of the seats to allow you to safely stand as a rough idea). Everyone is a winner too as I'm fairly sure in Germany there is still plenty of normal seats available (understandably, plenty of people such as yourelf, wish to sit). I can't reasonably see why both types of punter can not be accomadated into exsisting stadia. It was a tragic event that took place that was rightly used as highlighting the pretty :censored: standard of grounds and their potential for disaster but wrongly had people believe that standing in itself was unsafe (I'm sure this was noted in the Taylor report that standing in itself wasn't a problem). I hope sometime after the reports have been out and the dust has settled that a reasoned debate can take place as i reckon now would be the wrong time to try and push for new legislation with emotions so raw again on a sensitive issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Age may have dulled the memory but I don't recall it being overly uncomfortable standing at a match. Possibly because, more often than not, it involved leaning against a barrier that also doubled as a bovril table. There was more freedom to adjust your viewing position and there was no clambering over anyone to get to the bogs. Celebrating a goal was also just more fun particularly when, by the time you had been jumping around, arms round people you wouldn't ordinarily have your arms around, you find that you had managed to move a good dozen feet. The introduction of seating (whether it was a good thing or not) certainly changed the atmosphere inside stadiums and particularly at BP where the Chaddy used to be constantly loud and, even though there's nothing to encourage volume at the minute, I don't think it's been the same at any point since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Only ever stood at football twice: Accrington Stanley and Chesterfield. Not old enough to remember BP with terracing but i'd love to be able to stand at the games, i think it does bring about a better atmosphere and i actually like it more than seated stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitygoo Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I was thinking this just yesterday..... those decisions made due what happened that day were taken without the full facts being known. I'd think any ground which went standing / safe standing now wouldn't have pens and would be just as safe as seating to be perfectly honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) not around back in the day, but seriously can someone tell me why the would WANT to stand at a football match?? It's much, much more enjoyable that way, for starters. Much in the same way a gig is better stood up than sat down. If I want to sit down I'll go to the theatre. Secondly, it vastly improves the atmosphere. Look how much of an anti-climax the atmosphere at Anfield was 'cos everyone was forced to sit down. Whereas away games at places like Huddersfield, Preston etc are fantastic atmosphere's due to a large percentage of people standing throughout. Each to their own obviously, but I'd choose standing over sitting anyday. Edited September 14, 2012 by JonesyOAFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now the full facts are being divulged about Hillsborough does the law relating to all seater now need looking at. It now appears unbelievably that they didn't have a safety certificate for this ground at the time so based on what happened at an illegal venue all clubs had to go all seater. Do clubs now have a claim against the FA for the costs involved in having to comply with this and surely it is now wide open to a challenge the rule. I know the victims families have to be looked after first but everything surrounding Hillsborough and all the after effects from various authorities are now a sham. No not everything has been found a sham. Some of the blame of the ground not being up to standard fell at the feet of SWFC and that has remained to be the case. The ground improvements raised crowd safety regardless and will still be seen as a good thing. The matter of safe standing though perhaps could be relooked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I don't want to stand up if I have a choice. But if I was 20 years younger I would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshOWTB Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I think I've only ever stood at Brentford and possibly Hyde. What's the deal with Brentford still being allowed to have standing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I think I've only ever stood at Brentford and possibly Hyde. What's the deal with Brentford still being allowed to have standing? Not sure, but I think a deadline was set after the Taylor report where every club in (or joining) the Premier League had to have an all seater stadium. Not sure how it applied to lower league teams, but I think it was a bit more lenient. Be interesting to see what would happen in the unlikely event that Peterborough win promotion..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadam Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I think I've only ever stood at Brentford and possibly Hyde. What's the deal with Brentford still being allowed to have standing? You are allowed to stand at league 1 and 2 but if you are promoted to the championship you have 3 years to change it. I personally prefer standing, it would prevent people from standing in seated stadiums which is very annoying. Non-league is great you can stand where you want and even have a pint on the terrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticdickovarmy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It's much, much more enjoyable that way, for starters. Much in the same way a gig is better stood up than sat down. If I want to sit down I'll go to the theatre. Secondly, it vastly improves the atmosphere. Look how much of an anti-climax the atmosphere at Anfield was 'cos everyone was forced to sit down. Whereas away games at places like Huddersfield, Preston etc are fantastic atmosphere's due to a large percentage of people standing throughout. Each to their own obviously, but I'd choose standing over sitting anyday. I have to agree mate, I can see why people prefer seating as well though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookmeister Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 As so often happens in these debates i'll refer to the German model currently used (can't be arsed finding pictures) which eliminates any chance of crushing which use to occur. I don't think anyone in their right minds wants a return to way the way terraces use to be and looked like. However plenty of people still wish to stand and the way the current German models work it can be done in a very health and saftey way (just think adding handrails on each row just in front of the seats to allow you to safely stand as a rough idea). Everyone is a winner too as I'm fairly sure in Germany there is still plenty of normal seats available (understandably, plenty of people such as yourelf, wish to sit). I can't reasonably see why both types of punter can not be accomadated into exsisting stadia. It was a tragic event that took place that was rightly used as highlighting the pretty :censored: standard of grounds and their potential for disaster but wrongly had people believe that standing in itself was unsafe (I'm sure this was noted in the Taylor report that standing in itself wasn't a problem). I hope sometime after the reports have been out and the dust has settled that a reasoned debate can take place as i reckon now would be the wrong time to try and push for new legislation with emotions so raw again on a sensitive issue. ^ Everything he said. There's absolutely no reason, none at all, why it shouldn't be allowed back. Done properly, it would present no health and safety risk whatsoever. Sitters can be accommodated with their travel rugs and tartan thermos' and nod off if the feeling takes them, and standers can stand and enjoy/make an atmosphere without being whinged at . Attendances would increase as well because the matchday experience would be far better. It's win/win all round. It's just that the arseholes with the reigns of power think they know better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Age may have dulled the memory but I don't recall it being overly uncomfortable standing at a match. Possibly because, more often than not, it involved leaning against a barrier that also doubled as a bovril table. There was more freedom to adjust your viewing position and there was no clambering over anyone to get to the bogs. Celebrating a goal was also just more fun particularly when, by the time you had been jumping around, arms round people you wouldn't ordinarily have your arms around, you find that you had managed to move a good dozen feet. The introduction of seating (whether it was a good thing or not) certainly changed the atmosphere inside stadiums and particularly at BP where the Chaddy used to be constantly loud and, even though there's nothing to encourage volume at the minute, I don't think it's been the same at any point since. I go back to the 1950s when standing was an horrendous experience - particularly in large crowds, and it's amazing other tragedies didn't occur. The practice until Hillsborough was generally to pack fans in like sardines. We should all be thankful for all seater stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 What we need is the choice - to stand or not to stand - but it should not be introduced to increase the ground capacity. Standing gives you much more freedom and will improve the atmosphere, it also lets me dodge the rain when I watch Mossley (with a pint in my hand)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 The two league grounds that I have lived locally to in my life (Exeter and Cheltenham) have both got terracing and standing's what I almost always choose to do (a lot of the time due to the cheaper price I'll admit). The only time I felt slightly uncomfortable standing was when Exeter played United in the cup and the ground was 3 people off absolute capacity. Obviously I'm sure things were different before Hillsborough and standing was on a much larger scale for top division games, but with the crowds that teams below the Championship (and even some in that league) get it would be extremely unlikely that crushes would occur. I think the atmosphere is probably better in terracing although, if you go at the back, a fair few grounds will allow you to stand in my experience. The biggest improvement for me when standing is the social side of it. Football gives me the opportunity to meet a lot of different friend/family groups who often stand in different areas of the terracing, so it's much easier to move about either during the game or at half time and catch up with people you haven't seen for a while. Choice is the biggest thing for me. What I can't stand is being told to sit down at the back of a seated area. The health and safety risk is tiny and it doesn't block anyone's view. Luckily I've discovered that this is becoming more rare as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I go back to the 1950s when standing was an horrendous experience - particularly in large crowds, and it's amazing other tragedies didn't occur. The practice until Hillsborough was generally to pack fans in like sardines. We should all be thankful for all seater stadiums. That's a bit of a one-dimensional view. There are shades or grey regarding standing - just because 60-odd years ago, standing may have been unpleasant for some, does not mean it has to be now. We should be thankful for safer stadia, and there's no reason (other than financial) why supporters should be forced to either stand or sit - there should be the choice, and both options should be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) That's a bit of a one-dimensional view. There are shades or grey regarding standing - just because 60-odd years ago, standing may have been unpleasant for some, does not mean it has to be now. We should be thankful for safer stadia, and there's no reason (other than financial) why supporters should be forced to either stand or sit - there should be the choice, and both options should be safe. I was really referring to the olden days of grounds packed to capacity, good riddance to those days of crushing and fighting for a decent view, if you did manage to get to a bog at half time (and they were bogs) your chances of seeing the second half were almost nil. I can see a case for controlled terracing at some lower division clubs though. Edited September 14, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 pressed against people At a Latics game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I grew up following latics standing in the ' chaddy '......i have some brilliant memories and wouldn't have changed a thing. The atmoshere at times was electric and i felt we almost sucked the ball into the net, Ideally we would all have the choice. With properly regulated safe standing areas it shouldn't really be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 More importantly, it could be the catalyst that gets people back from Premier League grounds, where standing would take longer to be introduced again. It would give a true extra dimension to league clubs that Premier League teams wouldn't have. There is hunger for standing that already exists, like at home games, where the people who try to create an atmosphere get threatened and eventually sit down again, killing any atmosphere already brewed. Of course the Hillsborough tragedy was catastrophic and disasterous and we should learn a massive lesson about the events of that day but now the truth has been revealed, we can learn what caused those scenes and remedy any of those hazards that made the stand unsafe. The regulations about seats has gradually eroded smaller clubs. Its time to bring standing back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another fan Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I don't want to stand up if I have a choice. But if I was 20 years younger I would! If I was 40 years younger I would too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 There's just something about standing that makes it easier to sing. I'm not saying if standing was brought back it would be bring with it wall to wall noise for 90 mins but certainly encourage those who are going to sing (thinking those young 'uns in the Rocky) they have a chance to get something going. Certainly when it's points in a game when we need to get behind the lads (at the moment seemingly more points than less haha) that bit of noise could at least try and help lift the lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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