That's as bad as it gets

[rudemedic]

Perhaps even though he comes from Newcastle he can formulate his own opinions? Shock horror.

Perhaps but if I was out of work and my mates were doing a dream job which is massively over-paid, and that mate was moaning about paying a lot of tax and saying those out of work should get less then I'd be bloody pissed off. He's a professional footballer and shouldn't be slagging people off on twitter.

[maddog]

 

Perhaps but if I was out of work and my mates were doing a dream job which is massively over-paid, and that mate was moaning about paying a lot of tax and saying those out of work should get less then I'd be bloody pissed off. He's a professional footballer and shouldn't be slagging people off on twitter.

There's a naiveity, maybe even stupidity, about what he tweeted. But it certainly wasn't unprofessional, and as LL says, he's allowed an opinion, and to tweet said opinion as much as anyone in any profession.

[Bristolatic]

I may have had my rose (or tangerine) tinted specs on, but I didn't think we were quite as bad as some would believe yesterday. Maybe some think we were crap just because we lost. The way we started for the first 15 minutes, I thought that we were the only ones who looked like scoring. We passed it around and I thought the players looked up for the fight.

 

Then came their goal and it came initially from a sliced clearance by JYM that we just didn't get away from the danger area. I felt it was against the run of play although the game was more even after that. You talk about the long ball; how many times in the first half did their keeper land the ball on the edge of (or even inside) our box? I don't remember their number 5 playing one pass short of 30 yards.

 

Yes, we had a bad spell for about 15 or 20 minutes in the second half when we were under the cosh and couldn't put two passes together. But at least PD showed that he isn't quite the tactical disaster that he may have been in the past. He took Wes off for the more attack minded Baxter. He went 3 at the back by taking Byrne off for Smith, so that told me he wanted to go for it. It looked like a 3-4-3.

 

Whilst some of the performance left much to be desired, I thought that there were positives to take from the game. Croft and Montano work their bollocks off and get crosses in whenever they can. Montano isn't afraid to shoot and was very unlucky with one that drew a brilliant save when it had goal written all over it, Wabara looks a class act and I'd like him to stay for more than a month, even though that might be a bit cruel on Brown. I though Simpson worked hard, won a lot of the aerial challenges and spread some decent passes. Boozy looked pretty solid, JYM (apart from that one mistake) had a decent game. Whilst Furball played very deep, some of his passing was pretty good. Baxter showed attacking intent and looks up for it as does Derbyshire.

 

The main worry for me was Byrne. He's solid enough defending, but his distribution is awful. I have no problem with a defender hitting row Z instead of fannying around in his own box, but he hits the long ball too often. Maybe it's because he doesn't play the passing game too well because he passed to an opponent more than he did to one of his own. I'm not convinced about Grounds either. He was pretty average. Some of what he did was very good, but some was very poor.

 

Overall, I thought we maybe deserved a draw, especially in the last 10 minutes when we showed how to put pressure on. It was like the Alamo and Brentford hardly got out of their own half. It was that awful spell in the middle of the game that was hard to take, but more of the first 15 minutes and the last 10 and we're not a bad side. And, before anyone says so, playing well for 25 minutes out of 90 won't do; I'm aware of that.

 

PD has to get the consistency out them now and, once the new boys have had another couple of games, I hope that will come. I'm still not in the 'PD out' camp because, although I've only managed two games this season so far, I can see something in this team that isn't a million miles away from doing OK.

 

I honestly hope it all comes together soon, because I don't want to see another manager come in and change it all around again. We've got the nucleus of a decent side, so let's give just a little bit longer and see what happens. I'll probably have a more settled view after I've been up to BP for the Preston game.

 

By the way, who was the pillock who yelled "For :censored:'s sake, Dickov" when Byrne found someone in the crowd with an intended pass to Croft? I didn't spot PD screwing up the pass.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Bristolatic

[leeslover]

I may have had my rose (or tangerine) tinted specs on, but I didn't think we were quite as bad as some would believe yesterday. Maybe some think we were crap just because we lost. The way we started for the first 15 minutes, I thought that we were the only ones who looked like scoring. We passed it around and I thought the players looked up for the fight.

 

Pretty much sums it up for me. I've not seen us at home yet this season and I can't help but feel that a lot of people were carrying a hangover from poor games they've sat through before. If that was as bad as it gets I must have imagined a lot of bloody bad performances in the past. Simpson was poorly used - I guess Dickov didn't want to concede to the tendency to hoof by putting Smith on instead - we were frustrated by a team defending in numbers and with big units, on another day we would have won that game.

[BP1960]

I may have had my rose (or tangerine) tinted specs on, but I didn't think we were quite as bad as some would believe yesterday. Maybe some think we were crap just because we lost. The way we started for the first 15 minutes, I thought that we were the only ones who looked like scoring. We passed it around and I thought the players looked up for the fight.

 

Then came their goal and it came initially from a sliced clearance by JYM that we just didn't get away from the danger area. I felt it was against the run of play although the game was more even after that. You talk about the long ball; how many times in the first half did their keeper land the ball on the edge of (or even inside) our box? I don't remember their number 5 playing one pass short of 30 yards.

 

Yes, we had a bad spell for about 15 or 20 minutes in the second half when we were under the cosh and couldn't put two passes together. But at least PD showed that he isn't quite the tactical disaster that he may have been in the past. He took Wes off for the more attack minded Baxter. He went 3 at the back by taking Byrne off for Smith, so that told me he wanted to go for it. It looked like a 3-4-3.

 

Whilst some of the performance left much to be desired, I thought that there were positives to take from the game. Croft and Montano work their bollocks off and get crosses in whenever they can. Montano isn't afraid to shoot and was very unlucky with one that drew a brilliant save when it had goal written all over it, Wabara looks a class act and I'd like him to stay for more than a month, even though that might be a bit cruel on Brown. I though Simpson worked hard, won a lot of the aerial challenges and spread some decent passes. Boozy looked pretty solid, JYM (apart from that one mistake) had a decent game. Whilst Furball played very deep, some of his passing was pretty good. Baxter showed attacking intent and looks up for it as does Derbyshire.

 

The main worry for me was Byrne. He's solid enough defending, but his distribution is awful. I have no problem with a defender hitting row Z instead of fannying around in his own box, but he hits the long ball too often. Maybe it's because he doesn't play the passing game too well because he passed to an opponent more than he did to one of his own. I'm not convinced about Grounds either. He was pretty average. Some of what he did was very good, but some was very poor.

 

Overall, I thought we maybe deserved a draw, especially in the last 10 minutes when we showed how to put pressure on. It was like the Alamo and Brentford hardly got out of their own half. It was that awful spell in the middle of the game that was hard to take, but more of the first 15 minutes and the last 10 and we're not a bad side. And, before anyone says so, playing well for 25 minutes out of 90 won't do; I'm aware of that.

 

PD has to get the consistency out them now and, once the new boys have had another couple of games, I hope that will come. I'm still not in the 'PD out' camp because, although I've only managed two games this season so far, I can see something in this team that isn't a million miles away from doing OK.

 

I honestly hope it all comes together soon, because I don't want to see another manager come in and change it all around again. We've got the nucleus of a decent side, so let's give just a little bit longer and see what happens. I'll probably have a more settled view after I've been up to BP for the Preston game.

 

By the way, who was the pillock who yelled "For :censored:'s sake, Dickov" when Byrne found someone in the crowd with an intended pass to Croft? I didn't spot PD screwing up the pass.

 

He gets no credit from me for changing things when its going badly, he should have his tactics right in the first place, he's basically fire fighting in many of the games.

Edited September 23, 2012 by BP1960

[EASTLEY]

Pretty much sums it up for me. I've not seen us at home yet this season and I can't help but feel that a lot of people were carrying a hangover from poor games they've sat through before. If that was as bad as it gets I must have imagined a lot of bloody bad performances in the past. Simpson was poorly used - I guess Dickov didn't want to concede to the tendency to hoof by putting Smith on instead - we were frustrated by a team defending in numbers and with big units, on another day we would have won that game.

 

I'd go with this, this was a game we have got something from and fine margins mean't we didn't but this wasn't overall an awful performance, we had chances we didn't take them. They also had a couple of other chances but it was a pretty even game. We'll play worse and win/draw

[Bristolatic]

He gets no credit from me for changing things when its going badly, he should have his tactics right in the first place, he's basically fire fighting in many of the games.

I might not be quite getting the hang of this, but if every manager gets it right from the kick off, what sort of results would we have? He's been pilloried on here for not changing things when it's not going right. Now he has done, and he's still wrong. Am I missing summat?

[opinions4u]

on another day we would have won that game.

 

Same with every other game this season.

 

But, bar one, we haven't won any of them.

 

If the mix of minor tactical tweaks, change of personnel, dressing room morale and bits of good luck aren't getting results over an extended period how long do you give it?

 

I'm convinced Dickov should go. I believe Corney will give him until the end of October. I hope the manager can change my mind.

[Bristolatic]

Same with every other game this season.

 

But, bar one, we haven't won any of them.

 

If the mix of minor tactical tweaks, change of personnel, dressing room morale and bits of good luck aren't getting results over an extended period how long do you give it?

 

I'm convinced Dickov should go. I believe Corney will give him until the end of October. I hope the manager can change my mind.

Thing is, look at the list of out of work managers in the Dickov In or Out poll and it's not very inspiring.

[opinions4u]

 

Thing is, look at the list of out of work managers in the Dickov In or Out poll and it's not very inspiring.

 

Bring back Dave Penney and we'd be doing better.

 

That's not a suggestion for a replacement by the way. But the bottom line is that Paul Dickov has a worse managerial record than Penney had as Latics manger.

 

20 months ago Dickov's side sat 7th in the table, one point off the play-offs with games in hand. We now sit at the wrong end of the table with no home win all season and not having beaten anybody by two goals or more since last November. When did we last win two whole home games in a row? February?

 

Nicked from the post below: have only won 15 out of 52 at home under this management and haven't won by more than 1 goal in any of our last 40 games.

 

I can't ignore the cold hard facts any longer, however much I like the bloke. It will be interesting to see when Corney is of a similar mind.

Edited September 23, 2012 by opinions4u

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

The stats from yesterday don't reflect what most were seeing and certainly don't prove the OP right.

 

Possession (%)

 

 

 

53 -47

Shots on target

 

 

 

11 -7

Shots off target

 

 

 

7 -3

Corners

 

 

 

7 -12

Fouls

 

 

 

11 -6

 

 

 

On reflection those show that we were not too bad. However whilst we are "competitive," we are (1) clearly not entertaining and (2) despite recent signings still don't have a cutting edge to our play. The second point to an extent partly provides the reason for the 1st.

 

The fact remains that people are not feeling entertained and when you have paid good money to travel and get in, they want to be entertained. The stats show that we had 10 attempts at goal. The relaity is it didn't feel like we had. Nor did it feel like we had 12 corners, which for an away team is a high number.

 

When things aren't working there are various options for the manager/club. First you change the players and to be fair the manager has been given the opportunity to do that bringing in 48 in total in just over 2 seasons in charge. If that doesn't work change your tactics. I don't think he has really done that yet, but the arrival of Baxter may see a subtle change if he leaves out 1 of Furman or Wesolowski. I don't agree with those who automatically think that Furms and Wes both sit deep, but I do see why people think that is the case. However, more baffling for me is that Furman shone at international level in 2 games last week and the question would be is why? when he is not doing so for his club. If he is playing well for his country, he can't then be said to be out of form. Finally if the change of players doesn't work and then a change of tactics doesn't then the club have the ultimate option of changing the manager.

 

If people aren't being entertained patience will grow thin quicker than if they are. The stats show we were competitive yesterday but the fans were not happy.

 

We started and finished the game on top and were the better team until they scored but the 60 minutes in between we dropped a level and hardly threatened their keeper with the exceprtion of a couple of long range efforts from Montano.

 

It has been said that we have a team that is more than capable of being at least top half if not challenging for something a little better and the manager himself has said that this is the best squad he has had. I would agree with that. The fact remains however that we are sitting in 19th place have only scored once away in 4 games this season and even then that was an og. We haven't won in 5 attempts at home, 5 in the last 19 games and we have only won 15 out of 52 at home under this management and haven't won by more than 1 goal in any of our last 40 games. IMO our tempo especially at the start of each half isn't high enough and if we do go in front we sit back and invite the opposition on instead of going for a killer 2nd or 3rd. Until those things change we will be perceived to be negaitive and not entertaining. If that doesn't change there will, sadly, only be 1 ending.

 

In defence of the players, I always look to see if they are "playing" for the manager. I would say that they are and have a belief in what they are being asked to do, just as I believed they did for DP and in relation to another thread that is why I will clap the players at the end of a game. If they are trying and it doesn't end in a positive result for us then so be it, but they are entitled to be applauded for their efforts as there are more often than not other reasons for us not getting that (expected/hoped for) result

[mikejh45]

There's been some decent points made on here but from my perspective, I see changes in personnel and I see changes in tactics but I don't see joined up thinking. The Simpson saga is a classic example....we all know Simpson is not a target man yet he is played in that position. If PD carries on with the tactics he put forward yesterday then Smith has to be first choice as the target man....failing that start playing to Simpson's strengths instead if he's going to be first name on the teamsheet.

[Forte_Baby]

I have stood up for Dickov many times and have yet to call for his head. However yesterday was poor and fans like myself are starting to lose patience now. He seriously need to look at his tactics and game plan in the summer i said if we started bad fans would be on his case but reality is they have been since the summer. Having been one of his biggest critics thought Matt Smith played well and any other posistion on the pitch he be praised he got in but reality is he his not a league one player. Does not look like scoring and his first touch at times is poor.

 

On another note he could do with maybe toughening up goes down to easy for me liking opposistion make him an easy target.

[NIKI1234]

Having slept on it i still think we were woefull.

 

Ok we had a bright 10 minutes at the start and passed it about really well but there was no cutting edge, still was nice to see crisp quick passing. Then i dont know if it was the instruction from the management or the players just deciding to change the game plan themselves but for the next 65 mins we hoofed the ball up to simpson at every opportunity, this was it, the game plan for the rest of the game. He won the oddd header and layed it off a few times and then the play would break down again. In this 70 minute period i can only remember a 30 yard effort from montano and a 45 yard (no exageration) from baxter. It was boring, annoying, frutstrating and all against a team that once again were there for the taking.

The last 5 minutes we battered them, Dickov went 3 upfront and smith caused all sorts of problems, this is when i think we had our 11 corners or whatever the stats say. Brentford were trying everything to waste time and we had them on the ropes. It was all to little to late. Granted Dickov couldnt have gone all out attack like that for longer than the last 5 minutes but the tactic of hoofing the ball to Simpson for the manjority of the game didnt work. If your decision is to go long like this why would he not start smith?

 

Anyway i think the Brentford fans summed our performance up best when on several occasions they were singing "du du du du "fu*king useless"

 

Maybe uts not as bad as it gets but certainly cant get much worse for me

Edited September 24, 2012 by NIKI1234