FAO Simon Corney

[the_mighty_bosh]

Imho there's four midfield slots a striking position and a spot at CH up for grabs at Yeovil.

 

If Dickov has any desire to REALLY kick arse then he will use his full squad and make at least a couple of changes, particularly the Teflon twins in CM should certainly be looking over their shoulders. Montano's a kid, you're going to get inconsistency, but apart from the occasional fleeting glimpse I just don't get the Croft love-in. If it meant getting Baxter signed up and a chance of bringing in a striker similar to Derbyshire, then i'd be packing him back off to Derby's reserves in January.

 

Mellor and Winchester particularly deserve to be involved, JYM has been iffy for weeks so maybe give Tarky another go providing Byrne is fit alongside him.

 

Interesting stat that got mentioned on Saturday is that Croft has 8 assists this season. He's not been as good as I hoped but I'm not sure we could do that much better.

 

Definitely agree about using the full squad though and with us being 2 wins ahead of the drop (bear in mind Pompey's 10 point deduction) at this stage in the season, the next few games might be a very good chance to do this.

[IceStationLatic]

Trouble is managers are always wary of bringing young players into a struggling team, or in PD's case bringing them in full stop.

He clearly thinks they aren't good enough or they would have featured more.

If they smell blood and bust a gut in training this week, maybe he'll live up to his word from a week or so ago and some will feature.

But I think it'll be pretty much the same team, looking for a reaction.

I've called for a 4-3-3 with Smith before, playing off him and using positional flexibility to keep the ball on the deck even though he's there.

But others say it's stupid having him on without wingers crossing to him. To be fair, his goals have nearly all come from a basic half-decent cross - seems so easy.

We just seem so simple to beat and counter, tactically, in a 4-4-2 at times.

But playing any system, with a bit of effort and grit, would be a start

[slystallone]

I think the point about dropping underperforming players is a key one. The hairdryer treatment to the side that "played" on saturday is all well and good, but it's like discipling a toddler - if its an idile threat, it'll come to nothing.

Players like Furman, Croft, Montano, M'Voto.......they're in the comfort zone as they know, in all honesty, for as much as PD bleets on about it not being good enough/im not afraid to make changes etc - he wont do. They'll all play the next game.

 

I walked past Millar, Mellor, Winchester and Hughes on the way in the game on Sat. All in club tracksuits. All not involved in the matchday squad.

Millar and Mellor were sent out on loan to get match fit and come back and challenge. Not a peep- dispite Millar getting good reports in the reserves.

Winchester did well for NI U21's, but hasnt featured at all.

 

Its all well and good saying you're not afraid to make changes. It's another to actual to make them. It just looks like's all words from PD.

 

I've been disappointed with the non-inclusion of the youngsters all season - especially Mellor - but it just looks to me like they aren't going to get a run of games to show what they could do.

IMO, Mellor could be the solution to our CM issues - he has drive, poise, control, physicallity and a cultured left foot to add balance.

 

But - vs Yeovil, i predict a dam-near same line-up; with the Furman-Wes same old; same old in CM; Montano out of sorts, out of form & out of interest on the left.......same old, same old.

[bluehobbit]

Little bird told me that the players were going on their Christmas Do after the Swindon game. Dickov told them in no uncertain terms to 'forget it', they were in at 7.30am Sunday Morning and at a similar time yesterday getting beasted….

 

You know what, he may well begin to win me back over if it spawns a good Christmas period, because thats exactly what I would have done…no work, no play. Simples!

 

its true about the party and training they were due to get the day off monday if they beat swindown but lets face it they had all week to prepare for swindon couldnt string two passes together and lacked effort. They were awful no one earned there wage for saturday Derbyshire and Cisak being the only possible exceptions. I hope they improve and fast....

 

Im getting tired of matches like swindon where we dont even turn up and im sick of hovering aroung 16,17th we get to 16th and just as i think we might close in on a comft midtable we loose and looking over are shoulders again..

 

I can except people wanting the youth thrown in but they havent really impressed me. Millar wont make it. Mellor may do so but although people clamour for him to be played in the middle he just doenst look athletic enough to me to play the role and i want overly impressed with his passing when he was lb. Winchester looks decent on the ball but last time he was in the team he looked tentative and just plain scared. He only going to get over that by playing but theres no way he going to be an asset to the team untill he can come and gain some confidence ie when we are winning some games. We have only really well beaten Preston and Donny this season that was the time to introduce them not while we are battling for points and playing poorly, they just wont give us anything

Edited December 18, 2012 by bluehobbit

[the_mighty_bosh]

I've been disappointed with the non-inclusion of the youngsters all season - especially Mellor - but it just looks to me like they aren't going to get a run of games to show what they could do.

IMO, Mellor could be the solution to our CM issues - he has drive, poise, control, physicallity and a cultured left foot to add balance.

 

 

I agree with your post, except that I think Dickov has got it right to play our best possible XI for every game since August. He's been under pressure for the vast majority of the season and I think playing a weakened side for many of the matches could've lost him his job.

 

But Dickov has said that he's building something here and while I think he's done enough to keep his job so far there doesn't seem to be an obvious medium/long term strategy at all. Without 1st team football the development of players like Mellor and Winchester are going to stagnate. They've proven before they can make an impact on the team, albeit an inconsistent one.

 

With lots of games coming up in the next 3 weeks now could be as good a time as any to rotate the squad.

Edited December 18, 2012 by the_mighty_bosh

[LaticsChris]

Bang on.

 

WARNING: Disillusioned waffle coming up...

 

Personally, what worries me is the parallels I keep seeing between us and the club I cover at work, Grimsby.

Their previous manager was an ex-player, a striker. A man who believed in youth and long-term strategy. He bought pretty players. He got a young team. They were comfortable, the players always praised the team spirit, they were always talked up by the manager.

But they were inconsistent. Great one week, shocking the next. When things went wrong, heads went down as a seemingly collective defeatist mist came in. No leaders to turn the tide. Seemingly no plan b from the bench either. They'd be winning loads of games 1-0, but in the second half they'd concede and draw against teams they should have killed off.

They'd be playing well, then concede a poor goal and struggle to revover. They'd be winning a game 2-0 but concede two goals in stoppage time.

More and more fans stopped going. 'Same old...' Every spat of good results built hope - then a shocker knocked another 100 off the attendance and the doom set back in, more and more.

 

The new managers. Signed consistent workers, not just flair players. Signed players with something to prove, many of whom had experienced promotion at a former club.

Very rarely is a defeat followed by another defeat. A bad performance always leads to a reaction.

If they are poor, they are made to know about it - but the key thing is that it doesn't happen again, for quite a while. The gaps between those slip-ups have grown.

They graft and battle away from home, keep clean sheets and win games 1-0.

They attack at home and rack up some big scores, second only to Barcelona's home tally last season.

Now there's a winning mentality. A positive atmosphere brought on by results, not by an arm around the shoulder. That is breeding consistency. Sloppy mistakes and self-inflicted goals have dried up.

If one player is awful, the players manage themselves and pull their 'mates' up - there's leadership on the pitch, before a dressing room hairdryer if necessary.

The other week, the team conceded in the first few minutes of a game at home - the managers immediately pulled someone off, changed formation and the team won the game 5-1.

The fans are starting to come back. They realise the team put in a shift. It's still very expensive for non-league, against tiny clubs who barely bring 20 fans just a decade after Championship teams visited, but at least there's some value for money as the players visibly battle for the shirt, the club, the fans and the town.

This team is challenging for promotion.....

 

Amazingly, perhaps to some on here, one of the seemingly savvy managers is Rob Scott - and a good player has been Joe Colbeck...!

Good managers make players good, but good players can't make managers good?

 

 

 

 

But anyway back to Latics.....

 

You raise some good points here and touch on some thoughts I've had about Dickov and the future.

 

It seems to me that it takes a very talented man to bring a bunch of lads together, foster an excellent team spirit and then have it in him to discipline players and not be one of the lads when necessary. Most managers are only going to be good at half of that, you're either going to be the players' friendly Uncle or the strict headteacher. At our level you could argue (tentatively I suppose) that a more pragmatic long/medium term plan would be to have a few years under a manager such as Dickov, (who I don't think many of us would argue can spot a player - whether or not he can get him playing) where our young team is put together and bonds into a tight unit, then when results really get bad enough (i.e. possibly now/end of this season) a more hardline manager comes in, probably one with more experience, to give the team a kick up the arse and get them playing in a disciplined manner.

 

Just a thought anyway. Totally ridiculous I suppose because football club chairman don't think like that.

[oafcprozac]

I agree with your post, except that I think Dickov has got it right to play our best possible XI for every game since August. He's been under pressure for the vast majority of the season and I think playing a weakened side for many of the matches could've lost him his job.

 

But Dickov has said that he's building something here and while I think he's done enough to keep his job so far there doesn't seem to be an obvious medium/long term strategy at all. Without 1st team football the development of players like Mellor and Winchester are going to stagnate. They've proven before they can make an impact on the team, albeit an inconsistent one.

 

With lots of games coming up in the next 3 weeks now could be as good a time as any to rotate the squad.

 

Humour me a moment,

 

What if our best XI included one or two of those kids? Unless they get a proper run in their PREFERRED position we will never know. Nick Henry made his proper breakthrough in 88/89, he was pretty average in a team that shipped goals for fun. 6 months later along with Milligan was the mainstay of the midfield that contributed to a season beyond our wildest dreams.

 

Likewise, injuries forced a pretty average left-back to move inside, we sold him for 1.7m….

 

I never rated Scott Vernon, look at his record when he was given a run? Plenty more examples, we're in danger of writing kids off before they've been a real run in the side and tbh Mellor, Winchester, Hughes, Sutherland et al could not underachieve any more than some of the plebs that are the current shoe-ins to start….

[GlossopLatic]

Interesting stat that got mentioned on Saturday is that Croft has 8 assists this season. He's not been as good as I hoped but I'm not sure we could do that much better.

 

Definitely agree about using the full squad though and with us being 2 wins ahead of the drop (bear in mind Pompey's 10 point deduction) at this stage in the season, the next few games might be a very good chance to do this.

 

I saw that and I was pleasantly surprised about Croft leading in assists, its also worth pointing out that he hasn't scored and you would expect a player like that to be pushing for double figures over the course of the season so far he's been slightly dissapointing.

 

The worst thing you can do to a player is drop him, you can give him a rocket but if they are guaranteed their place week in week out then its not going to have the same effect you want someone to up the ante take action.

[IceStationLatic]

 

 

interesting read that......... regarding Colbeck maybe he has just found his level so not that amazing

 

Put to one side that he was sent off on Saturday!lol he's coming back from injury and was trying too hard - got himself two silly bookings for tackles.

 

But the impressive thing is that he was taken out of a relegated team, Hereford (and let's face it he didn't set the world at light at his former clubs too......! ) but he didn't just plod along with delight at getting a contract at a big non-league club. So many of the players brought in by the last boss did this.

 

And the other thing is that he has just blended into the overall team mentality. He is a cog in a machine rather than someone who's under pressure to come up with moments of brilliance every game. He loves that aspect of being at the club - but doesn't abuse it. He'd be out the door if he did.

 

Take Morais. It feels like here, he had to be this out-and-out winger with flair. His final ball was always analysed. Why wasn't he getting more goals? Was he tracking back enough? Etc

 

He goes to Stevenage. He slots in a five-man midfield and plays to an organised team formula. You hardly hear about him setting the world alight but look where he and they are in the table....

 

It boils down to creating a consistent team at the end of the day...

[JoeP]

Trouble is managers are always wary of bringing young players into a struggling team, or in PD's case bringing them in full stop.

He clearly thinks they aren't good enough or they would have featured more.

If they smell blood and bust a gut in training this week, maybe he'll live up to his word from a week or so ago and some will feature.

But I think it'll be pretty much the same team, looking for a reaction.

 

...and then they'll have a couple of stinkers, have to get a reaction in the next game and cycle will start again. It's not getting us anywhere.

 

I've never felt so detached from the players we've got at the moment - I know players never feel the same about the club as the fans do, but on Saturday they didn't even try to fake it. I think maybe getting some of the "passion" back for the club amongst the fans could start with bringing some of the youngsters through, that we've developed and nurtured - our own, if you like. A lot of the senior players only seem to turn it on when they need to, which is an insult to those paying to see them - getting some of the kids in, with enthusiasm, could be the start of building a team, like you highlighted in your Grimsby post. I actually think we need to lose some of the luxury players like Croft and even Baxter to some extent (he shouldn't be signed on just to carry the rest and should be playing in a team at a higher level, with higher quality players around him...).

 

Our younger players must have some talent - they wouldn't be here otherwise and I find it hard to believe they can do any worse than the seniors have done in many of the games this season. If they ignore the confidence shattering experience which is playing at Boundary Park, who knows, they might turn out to be brilliant....and I think it's worth the risk finding out if they're up to it.

[Tommy_Fent]

passion doesn't win you Football matches anymore, sadly the team we faced on Saturday have had more investment holders (partly down to an increase in season ticket holders) and it showed with the better quality of players. i.e those who have the talent but the passion to go alongside it to grind out results.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Tommy_Fent

[NewBlue]

I can take getting beat, I can accept that there are better teams than us out there. What i refuse to accept is that players who are paid a handsome wage (even the lowest paid members are highly paid when you look at the hourly rate!) to do something that each and every one of us in the stands wishes we could do, can go out there and show no passion and no fight....It's not just that I can't accept this....to be honest I find it disgusting that it can happen 3 or 4 weeks out of every 10 or so.

 

I played for a woeful Sunday league side. We were awful averaging about 2-3 wins a season at one point and we mainly played just for the fitness and the fun of 15 lads having an afternoon out. When we crossed that line, we gave everything despite our limitations and the fact that we came up against much better sides. If we got beat we got beat....and if anyone came off feeling like they hadn't given their all, they were told so and it usually didn't happen for a while afterwards.

 

What I saw on Saturday was a complete lack of interest from pretty much the entire squad. Montano backed out of multiple challenges......if it was me in charge, he'd have been off 30 seconds after the first one. Its ok PD saying "I won't accept this or I won't accept that" - but what does he actually do about it?

 

Nothing....

 

I think part of the reason the players don't feel that kick up the arse is the camaraderie between the players.

 

I have nothing against a strong bond and relationship between a squad but I don't see characters in our team that are prepared to sacrifice that bond to really 'whip' their teammates when they've had a poor game.

 

Too many happy go lucky players rather than those that will grab the game by the scruff of the neck or tell their teammate how it is. All too close to do that. It tells you something when the players go on Twitter later and have a laugh together on the same night as a pathetic loss.

 

Where is that figure that will let our players know when they've had a :censored: performance and it won't be accepted again?

[BP1960]

A stranger would have no idea of the Latics team captain, and perhaps many fans don't know either.

The only one I have seen barking and shouting at colleagues is Tarkowski, but he appears to be out of favour even when other centre backs are injured.

[oafcprozac]

I think part of the reason the players don't feel that kick up the arse is the camaraderie between the players.

 

I have nothing against a strong bond and relationship between a squad but I don't see characters in our team that are prepared to sacrifice that bond to really 'whip' their teammates when they've had a poor game.

 

Too many happy go lucky players rather than those that will grab the game by the scruff of the neck or tell their teammate how it is. All too close to do that. It tells you something when the players go on Twitter later and have a laugh together on the same night as a pathetic loss.

 

Where is that figure that will let our players know when they've had a :censored: performance and it won't be accepted again?

 

Captain Sideways is the biggest wimp we have, he's the first to hide when the going gets tough. I thought he was :censored: in his first year under Penney, then Dickov got him alongside Stephens and he looked much better. Since the beginning of the year (PNE game apart) he's back to what we saw under Penney. You watch the difference when we lose him for a month. As for making Tarky captain, I could live with that him or Byrne…..

 

Greegs got called a bully, nope he was a winner, Taylor got called a whinger, nope he's proved some of us wrong and is a very good Championship player….etc, etc...

[leeslover]

Put to one side that he was sent off on Saturday!lol he's coming back from injury and was trying too hard - got himself two silly bookings for tackles.

 

But the impressive thing is that he was taken out of a relegated team, Hereford (and let's face it he didn't set the world at light at his former clubs too......! ) but he didn't just plod along with delight at getting a contract at a big non-league club. So many of the players brought in by the last boss did this.

 

And the other thing is that he has just blended into the overall team mentality. He is a cog in a machine rather than someone who's under pressure to come up with moments of brilliance every game. He loves that aspect of being at the club - but doesn't abuse it. He'd be out the door if he did.

Did we expect moments of brilliance every game? We'd have been pleased to see him put his boots on the correct feet.

[slystallone]

We're such a silent team, so so quiet during the game. We don't really shout or say anything during games at all; I sit pretty much pitch side in the MSP and barely hear a whisper. Swindon were shouting at each other, at the manager and the bench all game.

 

But we shouldn't be surprised by that. We've been that way for years and years. The likes of Clint Hill, Simon Charlton & Sean Greegan have been the exceptions; not the norms.

 

Considering how vocal both PD & GT were as players; it surprises me that they have let such a silent side develop.

 

For all the good it would do; we might as well make Youseff M'Changama captain.

 

1 vocal captain in a side with 10 silent teammates wont make a jot of difference. We need a side packed full of mini-leaders, of vocal players. But we don't. So, feck it - give it Matt Smith. He's tall

[leeslover]

The likes of Clint Hill, Simon Charlton & Sean Greegan have been the exceptions; not the norms.

I flagged him up - we had decent players in the side, his signing got about 6 of them playing properly. He wasn't even a shouter, he just told them. Is there someone like that out there for us now?

[oafc1955]

We're such a silent team, so so quiet during the game. We don't really shout or say anything during games at all; I sit pretty much pitch side in the MSP and barely hear a whisper. Swindon were shouting at each other, at the manager and the bench all game.

 

But we shouldn't be surprised by that. We've been that way for years and years. The likes of Clint Hill, Simon Charlton & Sean Greegan have been the exceptions; not the norms.

 

Considering how vocal both PD & GT were as players; it surprises me that they have let such a silent side develop.

 

For all the good it would do; we might as well make Youseff M'Changama captain.

 

1 vocal captain in a side with 10 silent teammates wont make a jot of difference. We need a side packed full of mini-leaders, of vocal players. But we don't. So, feck it - give it Matt Smith. He's tall

 

 

Didn't Dickov comment on how quiet we were during his 1st season........didn't he also say that he wanted leaders on the pitch and that this would be reflected in any future signings. He also said at the end of last season he would be signing players willing to run through brick walls for the cause.............I didn't see many on view last Saturday!

 

I don't think we have a single player in the whole squad, never mind the team, who is out and out Captain material and after two and a half seasons in charge that is a travesty........Dickov should have made it his No.1 priority. When we concede, everybody just looks at each other as if to say.....how did that happen?

 

We will never make any progress on the field until this problem is properly addressed!!!

[slystallone]

 

I flagged him up - we had decent players in the side, his signing got about 6 of them playing properly. He wasn't even a shouter, he just told them. Is there someone like that out there for us now?

True.

I missed Andy Liddell out of that 3 i posted too. Another leader on the pitch but another non-shouter. He basically talked and pointed a very young Neal Eardley through an entire season, playing in front of him and guiding him every game.

 

I remember Cliff Byrne being far more vocal at scunny than he has been with us. Maybe we have a mute clause inserted into contracts?