philliggi Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 you can fully understand reasoning behind calls to scrap the youth system. if these players are the best we have got from the future crop there is little point in continuing with it. all of them are heading straight for non league and have no future in league football in my opinion. i have never seen a latics team so powder puff in all my time watching them. i have said all season our midfield is the weakest point of the team, but compared to yesterday wes and furman are premier class. winchester, Hughes, Millar, just not good enough, and never likely to be anywhere near. i would also go as far to say changy aint good enough either. we are crying out for a hard as nails central player, who can dominate midfield. they dont even need to be the greatest of footballers, just someone to scare the :censored: out of the opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Winchester has had a decent run alongside an established midfield partner. He has shown glimpses for me. Hughes hasn't had a run of any sort. But I've seen him beat a man and cross a ball. There's potential. Millar. Not had a good run. But I've never seen him do anything. Ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 In my opinion ,our young players look a million miles away from what is needed at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Winchester can play at this level but he needs a decent defensive midfielder alongside him, Youseff is not that player. Wes, Furman, or as example of someone somewhere else in this division, Douglas would allow Winchester to show that he can make it at this level. Hughes I've not seen enough of to comment on, Millar I'd advise to learn a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) They won't ever be ready unless the manager trusts them and gives them proper game time. As for Changy not being good enough? He was pretty poor yesterday but was in very good company, but against Donny, Crewe and at times against Forest he was the best player on the pitch. Edited January 13, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Agree about Millar, not even good enough for non-league imo, why he got a contract and the excellent Burns didn't is a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Winchester needs games to learn his trade in CM, if he's not going to play here then he needs a decent loan spell at LEAGUE Club, same with Mellor. Loan spells worked wonders for the likes of Taylor come on Dickov get that contacts book out and get these lads some LEAGUE or at worst Conference, not fecking Chorley Borough Pub Team 3rd XI…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't think Winchester has had a decent run alongside an established midfield partner. He has shown glimpses for me. Hughes hasn't had a run of any sort. But I've seen him beat a man and cross a ball. There's potential. Millar. Not had a good run. But I've never seen him do anything. Ever! Millar had a shot saved in the first minute of his debut v Brentford in March 2010, dined out on it ever since, waste of a wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 They won't ever be ready unless the manager trusts them and gives them proper game time. As for Changy not being good enough? He was pretty poor yesterday but was in very good company, but against Donny, Crewe and at times against Forest he was the best player on the pitch. Was that a response to me? As I think Changy is a good player at this level but he is not the solid DM that Winchester needs to play with at the moment. When Wes and Furman are back I'd be looking to send Winchester on loan as he isn't going to progress much being bullied by players like Douglas. I'd also get him in the gym on the weights (the upcoming weather might help with that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Agree about Millar, not even good enough for non-league imo, why he got a contract and the excellent Burns didn't is a mystery. Out of interest, did Burns get fixed up with a club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Playing in Norn Ire I believe…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Was that a response to me? As I think Changy is a good player at this level but he is not the solid DM that Winchester needs to play with at the moment. When Wes and Furman are back I'd be looking to send Winchester on loan as he isn't going to progress much being bullied by players like Douglas. I'd also get him in the gym on the weights (the upcoming weather might help with that). No, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Millar had a shot saved in the first minute of his debut v Brentford in March 2010, dined out on it ever since, waste of a wage. Didn't realise his debut was so long ago.. Shows how little he's progressed really as in 3 years he's no closer to the starting 11. Don't want to bash the players who rarely get a game but Millar doesn't look like he'll cut it, still baffling that he got a contract extension. He'd have been better off dropping down to Conference and starting over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Winchester has shown enough to me to suggest he has a decent career in him. First half he was awful, proper rabbit in headlights stuff which he always does when he is thrust in. Second half it was a different player, he sought the ball and was much more involved, our best chance of the game fell to him too. I was pleasantly surprised when he did a little drag back to create more space, had the goal gaping and had at least one teammate in space but then hit it wide. He really does need a run of games along side Wes and fortunately he will get that whilst Furman is on his jollies. Once he has it in his head that he is a player and has to turn it on week in week out I can see him being the kind of midfielder that we are all looking forward to going and seeing on a Saturday. It is on him now to prove it to himself that he is that player, he can pass, shoot, score and when he doesn't wuss out of challenges (which he did too many times yesterday) he can win the ball. I'm undecided on the whole keep/lose the youth setup due to rules changes..etc. but I do love it when some kid like Winchester comes through and I can watch them learn their trade, make their mistakes and have their successes. Re: Burns, from the people who post on this board who watch the yoofs he was a prospect but didn't he break both his legs in multiple places? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Playing in Norn Ire I believe…. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Winchester has shown enough to me to suggest he has a decent career in him. First half he was awful, proper rabbit in headlights stuff which he always does when he is thrust in. Second half it was a different player, he sought the ball and was much more involved, our best chance of the game fell to him too. I was pleasantly surprised when he did a little drag back to create more space, had the goal gaping and had at least one teammate in space but then hit it wide. He really does need a run of games along side Wes and fortunately he will get that whilst Furman is on his jollies. Once he has it in his head that he is a player and has to turn it on week in week out I can see him being the kind of midfielder that we are all looking forward to going and seeing on a Saturday. It is on him now to prove it to himself that he is that player, he can pass, shoot, score and when he doesn't wuss out of challenges (which he did too many times yesterday) he can win the ball. I'm undecided on the whole keep/lose the youth setup due to rules changes..etc. but I do love it when some kid like Winchester comes through and I can watch them learn their trade, make their mistakes and have their successes. Re: Burns, from the people who post on this board who watch the yoofs he was a prospect but didn't he break both his legs in multiple places? I think the concern with Winchester is that he still doesn't seem to have bulked up any. He needs to be stronger (particularly if he's going to play in midfield) if he wants to make it, even just at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hmmm. Re: Changy, he was in my top 3 for MoM yesterday....I didnt think he was poor at all, I thought he had a very solid game indeed, especially as he had to cover for Winchester for most of the 1st half. On Winchester, I'm pretty much on the fence. With the ball at his feet and with time around him; he looks the business. He has a nice upright style and is always looking for a pass and to create. Where he looms God-awful is in the cut & thrust of a midfield battle. It's a proper man against boy in terms of that, IMO he hasnt strengthened or bulked up one jot since his debut. Thats a worry. IMO - if he's going to make it, he has to up his physical work and be prepared to mix it in the middle of the park. Far too many times he was brushed off thr ball, lost tackles he was 60-40 favourite for or worse; wussed out of the tackle completely. As others have said, I'd have had him out on loan by now - initially to a Blue Square Bet side and then look to up him to a League 2 side. He needs to man-up really, but I still think there's a player in there. Finally, credit where its due. Kirk Millar did well when he came on IMO. Git involved, got on the ball and was nice & positive. I dont think he's got "it" and would be amazed if he got another deal. But - yesterday; he did alright for me when he got on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Oh - and again, what has Dave Mellor done wrong? It just seems to me that PD simply doesnt rate him. Thats his decision to make obviously. But - we lost yesterday as I felt we were too lightweight in midfield. Mellor is the exact opposite of Winchester in that physically, he's got it to mix & match it in League One. Personally, I'd have gone with Mellor and Changy yesterday. But, it seems he's the forgotten man.......and it looks like he's on for being released just 1 year after a Prem Club was reportedly offering £300K for his signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc-latics Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 we don't have a first team left winger until Montano comes back and Simpson is not the one to play there. so it's time for Dickov to give Millar, Mellor, Hughes, Sutherland their chance to have a go there for me. If he does that for two months, then he can see if theyre good or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 you can fully understand reasoning behind calls to scrap the youth system. Say we had no youth system, let's look at what yesterdays 18 players would of been. Bouzanis Wabara Bryne M'voto Grounds Croft M'changama ?? Simpson Baxter Smith Subs: Cisak Brown Taylor Add in to the loans being banned from 2014, you can take Wabara & Croft out of the team. That means we'd end up playing Cisak in CM just to put 11 players out & then we'd have no subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philliggi Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 obviously at this present moment in time we couldnt do without the youth set up, but with planning, and diverting funds the first team squad would be much larger, and we would have a greater budget. the forty or so (guessed at figures) players currently in the youth set up and reserve teams would translate into ten or so players ready for first team football. so you would be able to provide an 18 man squad, with 4 or five in reserve to cover injuries etc. perfectly workable imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Say we had no youth system, let's look at what yesterdays 18 players would of been. Bouzanis Wabara Bryne M'voto Grounds Croft M'changama ?? Simpson Baxter Smith Subs: Cisak Brown Taylor Add in to the loans being banned from 2014, you can take Wabara & Croft out of the team. That means we'd end up playing Cisak in CM just to put 11 players out & then we'd have no subs. You don't have to have a youth system to offer trials to young players, and sign up any that look to be promising on very little money There must be thousands that are let go by clubs in the top two divisions. Instead of starting at 9 or 10, we can start them at 17 or 18, and they can play at reserve team level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Add in to the loans being banned from 2014, you can take Wabara & Croft out of the team. That means we'd end up playing Cisak in CM just to put 11 players out & then we'd have no subs. Sorry that's bollocks. Cisak is a right back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 You don't have to have a youth system to offer trials to young players, and sign up any that look to be promising on very little money There must be thousands that are let go by clubs in the top two divisions. Instead of starting at 9 or 10, we can start them at 17 or 18, and they can play at reserve team level. Problem is the reserve league is a shambles with only a few clubs in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Sorry that's bollocks. Cisak is a right back. And Simpson is a goalkeeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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