Magic Mikey Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 David Hopper, general secretary of the Durham Miners' Association has described Di Canio's latest statement as "a step in the right direction". You couldn't write it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I think I'd rather have a fascist in charge than a bunch of :censored:ing commies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 I have a lot of Sunderland supporting mates. They're all seem to be choosing to ignore it and convincing themselves his appointment is a good move. It'd have been a similar story here if he'd have come in when Dickov got the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) Presumably, I wasn't being serious, though. Some bookie might give you odds on that, but then again they might parachute a BME candidate into a relatively safe seat. They aren't winning a seat of another party at the next election, but they will retain a few. No safe seats for Lib Dems anymore (they never really had any anyway). Ladbrokes has Lib Dems at 12/1 to have between zero and 10 seats after the next general election. They were 16/1 at the last election to have between 60 and 70 seats. (I'm not sure about them retaining even one seat. Labour voters in the south-west and elsewhere have long propped them up to defeat the Tories. (I'd love it if the Eastleigh by-election backed up that theory but it just doesn't.) The Tories would've won Eastleigh if (i) they didn't put up a barmcake as a candidate, and (ii) UKIP's vote hadn't rocketed. If UKIP holds up at the general election, Lib Dems will retain seats. If UKIP-inclined people hold their noses and vote Tory, the Lib Dems are :censored:ed. Lib Dems are therefore absolutely desperate for UKIP to do well at the next election. Funny old game.) Edited April 4, 2013 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 No safe seats for Lib Dems anymore (they never really had any anyway). Ladbrokes has Lib Dems at 12/1 to have between zero and 10 seats after the next general election. So they're heavily odds on to have more than 10 seats then. 1/33 perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 So they're heavily odds on to have more than 10 seats then. 1/33 perhaps? It's a shock-averse market I reckon, and probably a thin one at that. Based on the polling numbers and indicators such as the :censored: people are in because of them, I reckon 12/1 is a very attractive price. They're relying on other results, as it were, which is never good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Lib Dems currently have 57 MPs. It would take an unprecedented swing to drop to 10, never mind lose the lot. They will lose out but I'd be amazed if they dropped to under 25. You're right that UKIP may be the key - very likely at the expense of all three main parties in different areas. Anyway, back to fascist footballers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Anyway, back to fascist footballers. Bosnich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Bosnich Wrong arm Marco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Wrong arm Marco. Displaying once again his famed indiscipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Can't you be both socialist and fascist? You can't be otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Would one say that Fascism would be classed as Racism before Mussolini colluded with the German Socialist Party? Was it case a case of: Facism is an alternative to racism. Or Was it: Mussolini colluded with the GSP so as to avoid genocide in Italy ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Would one say that Fascism would be classed as Racism before Mussolini colluded with the German Socialist Party? Was it case a case of: Facism is an alternative to racism. Or Was it: Mussolini colluded with the GSP so as to avoid genocide in Italy ???? Mussolini was a Fascist head of government before Hitler was out of short trousers. Therefore he gets to say what Fascism is. It's a strong centrally controlled state, the government runs things by and large and has a nationalist bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 You can't be otherwise This is bollocks - and you know it - but the real problem is you also obviously wouldn't recognise real political evil if it kicked you in the bollocks. Therefore he gets to say what Fascism is. Do you subscribe to all of Il Duce's teachings, or just that one? For most people, Il Duce doesn't get to decide what anything is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Would one say that Fascism would be classed as Racism before Mussolini colluded with the German Socialist Party? Was it case a case of: Facism is an alternative to racism. Or Was it: Mussolini colluded with the GSP so as to avoid genocide in Italy ???? Mussolini happily (for him) colluded in the rounding up of Jews for deportation. There really is no need for such nuance. He was fascist and racist. In modern times, fascism implies racism. Di Canio has a tattoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Some religions imply racism also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Some religions imply racism also Example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Do you subscribe to all of Il Duce's teachings, or just that one? For most people, Il Duce doesn't get to decide what anything is. He was the first leader of a Fascist party in the post-Roman Empire era. I will hold by my idea of using his party as a fair definition of what it was to be a Fascist in C20 Europe. It was comical, and :censored:, and socialist, and inefficient, and had the standard centralisation that inclines towards totalitarianism, despotism and war. It didn't come from the same pot as Hitler though. As for your other points, as you know, you agree with far more of Il Duce's policies and ideology than I do. Even so, as I have no need or desire to defend him, you are pretty much wrong on his rounding up of the Jews. The Italian government showed less enthusiasm for this than they do for monitoring farm subsidies today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 He was the first leader of a Fascist party in the post-Roman Empire era. I will hold by my idea of using his party as a fair definition of what it was to be a Fascist in C20 Europe. It was comical, and :censored:, and socialist, and inefficient, and had the standard centralisation that inclines towards totalitarianism, despotism and war. It didn't come from the same pot as Hitler though. As for your other points, as you know, you agree with far more of Il Duce's policies and ideology than I do. Even so, as I have no need or desire to defend him, you are pretty much wrong on his rounding up of the Jews. The Italian government showed less enthusiasm for this than they do for monitoring farm subsidies today. Primo. Levi. Okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Primo. Levi. Okay? The were racial laws in Italy which covered Jews, but little by way of sending to the camps until German occupation, and even then it was on a lesser scale than most occupied countries. Not great, but it shows that Musso had no great appetite for the mass murder aspect of it, he could have done it very easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 The were racial laws in Italy which covered Jews, but little by way of sending to the camps until German occupation, and even then it was on a lesser scale than most occupied countries. Not great, but it shows that Musso had no great appetite for the mass murder aspect of it, he could have done it very easily Not good enough for me. "Less efficient than Hungary" does not cleanse the stain. "No great appetite" similarly does not get you beatification. He was involved plenty enough for me. Plus we now know from bitter experience one very likely outcome of racial laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Not good enough for me. "Less efficient than Hungary" does not cleanse the stain. "No great appetite" similarly does not get you beatification. He was involved plenty enough for me. Plus we now know from bitter experience one very likely outcome of racial laws. Nobody is saying he was a nice man. Well, maybe Di Canio is, but not many people are. My point is that the racist laws were cynical rather than ideological. In so far as there was racist motivation to them it was as much to stop Italians getting jiggy in Ethiopia as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Nobody is saying he was a nice man. Well, maybe Di Canio is, but not many people are. My point is that the racist laws were cynical rather than ideological. In so far as there was racist motivation to them it was as much to stop Italians getting jiggy in Ethiopia as anything. Anti-semitic laws stop Italians shagging Ethiopians how? Di Canio is a racist. Mussolini was a racist. I can't believe you're actually defending Mussolini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Anti-semitic laws stop Italians shagging Ethiopians how? Di Canio is a racist. Mussolini was a racist. I can't believe you're actually defending Mussolini. I on the other hand can easily believe that you would falsely claim I was doing so. Racism was not a feature of Mussolini's ideology until later on in his government. Most of the racial laws he passed post his invasion of Ethiopia referred to non-Aryan people, not to Jews. No doubt he was pandering to Hitler as well at that point following the formation of the Axis. My point is that associating yourself with the Italian fascist movement means you are associating with evil bastards, but it is massively crude to insinuate that it is entirely or primarily about racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I on the other hand can easily believe that you would falsely claim I was doing so. Racism was not a feature of Mussolini's ideology until later on in his government. Most of the racial laws he passed post his invasion of Ethiopia referred to non-Aryan people, not to Jews. No doubt he was pandering to Hitler as well at that point following the formation of the Axis. My point is that associating yourself with the Italian fascist movement means you are associating with evil bastards, but it is massively crude to insinuate that it is entirely or primarily about racism. I'm not insinuating any such thing. I'm saying Italian fascism is racist enough. More than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.