oafcprozac Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Do we stick or twist with him? By all accounts him and his agent were pushing for the loan move to Donny last week, now I know he always gives his all and it is never been for the want of trying but we've been at our best time and again this season without him. So do we stick or twist? Get the loan fee and try to bring in a midfielder that will cross the halfway line and actually look to get forward and into the box. For most of yesterday it was like watching Dickov's tactics again, no slight on TP - it was our Captain's lack of pro-activity yet again. Furman is a nice guy, very good to have around the club, but is he simply not that good? His first season he was awful, couldn't find a blue shirt. Second year for 5 months or so he was very good in getting forward then went back into his shell, he was like that most of last season and this year has been as equally disappointing bar the odd game. He needs to play without fear, and too often he is afraid to get forward. Thus the rest of the team sits deep and we have the situation we had yesterday of Smithy being so isolated, I mean FFS he knows what the big man can do so get in amongst it and play for the knock downs, nope we have him sat in the centre-circle or deeper - not getting forward, apart from one late effort. I for one would let him go, and give the other midfielders in the squad a go, or maybe Uncle SImon can look at his statement re: 'Going Shopping' again? We've got the goals to keep us up, but we need forward thinking midfielders to take the game to the opposition which in turn gives us width, which we mostly lacked yesterday. We're good enough to stay up but certain players (Furman, Simpson) are letting the side down by playing within themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I get the feeling we'll soldier on with what we've got and take stock come July. Interesting to know where we sit financially now and what this means for next season and longer term on the field... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Don't agree, I usually do, but it was the wrong tactics. We need goals and Baxter doesn't seem able to play up front with Smith. It was much better when we removed Wes and Baxter dropped back so we had two up front with Baxter better able to control things - to be a forward looking midfield player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Probably, but he's definitely gone in the Summer anyway, like a fair few of his mates. That's worrying as how many will bust a gut if say we are 4 points adrift with four games remaining? I do think we'll stay up but a couple coasted through yesterdays game Furman, Simpson and Baxter were all pretty poor and that's worrying. Saturday is massive, so is the following Tuesday against an in form Hartlepool outfit. The cup run has been fantastic, but in the cold light of day we have still only won 4 games in 15 and taken 10 points from 45 - to stay up we need to find some consistency and quick. The captain needs to be a focal point of the team and at the moment he's one of the first to hide. When we stayed up in '99 Dux was our leader, as were Garnett, Shez and Kelly. We need those onfield leaders now, so some need to step up to the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Don't agree, I usually do, but it was the wrong tactics. We need goals and Baxter doesn't seem able to play up front with Smith. It was much better when we removed Wes and Baxter dropped back so we had two up front with Baxter better able to control things - to be a forward looking midfield player. Yep, Baxter up front was the wrong call, he was dreadful. Looked a bit better back in CM - it was a strange one as TP had remarked that he prefers JB in CM as he sees more of the ball then isolates him up front, Simpson should have been up front with Smith and Obita should have started with Furman on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I know TP is rotating to keep players fresh and we had one or two injuries but we need consistency, chopping and changing is the wrong approach at this stage imho. Hopefully next week we will see Bouzy Brown M'Voto Tarky] Grounds Croft Wes Baxter Obita Smith Barnard Furman back to the bench surely…. Although I can see TP starting Iwelumo, simply as he has done ok in the league and him and Barnard starting have brought us the points, Smith proved yesterday he is better as an impact Sub. I thought Iwelumo did well when he came on and found the space Smith was not finding and but for their second goal and the dodgy foul in their area that led to them getting off the hook when it should have been a corner, I truly believe we would have nicked a point late on. Edited March 3, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'd keep simply because we need a squad that has some depth till we are safe. If Wes or Baxter picked up an injury or a red card we don't want to be relying on getting a loanee in. Furman has been playing below what he's shown he's capable of but I'd rather keep options open by having a squad that had some bonding and depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYESY Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I agree that when Baxter drops into midfield he is much more influential and gets in the game much more, compared to when he is up top with Smith. If Baxter drops into midfield it allows Furman to sit in that hole in front of the defence which suits him more. I personally think we should keep Furman as he always stands out when in midfield with Baxter, whereas when he plays with Wes there is nothing going forward. Part of it goes down to the selection in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 TP was very positive after yesterday and good on him. Doesn't this just show us how fickle we are as fans. The amount of threads and posts criticising Dickov for being too positive and now it's twisted a good thing if Philliskirk does it. Now, I completely agree that the ref partly cost us that game and so did a few errors that are uncontrollable but there is no denying that we were very poor in attack and created very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYESY Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Doesn't this just show us how fickle we are as fans. The amount of threads and posts criticising Dickov for being too positive and now it's twisted a good thing if Philliskirk does it. Now, I completely agree that the ref partly cost us that game and so did a few errors that are uncontrollable but there is no denying that we were very poor in attack and created very little. I'd rather people take positives out of mangers though, rather than everybody nit picking to find something wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I agree that when Baxter drops into midfield he is much more influential and gets in the game much more, compared to when he is up top with Smith. If Baxter drops into midfield it allows Furman to sit in that hole in front of the defence which suits him more. I personally think we should keep Furman as he always stands out when in midfield with Baxter, whereas when he plays with Wes there is nothing going forward. Part of it goes down to the selection in my opinion. 100% agree with this, hopefully TP will realise that yesterday's team didn't work for him or Dickov and stick with the 4-4-2 for the rest of the season. Both Furman and Wes are worthwhile players to have in the squad but it's seems clear that playing both of them hinder us going forward, luckily we have a player in Baxter who can create a lot from advanced midfield positions so it allows either Furman or Wes to do the dirty work which suits them well. The trickiest decision is which of the two starts, but this is where TP/next manager needs to be ruthless and make a decision. Personally I think Furman is better suited to the defensive role and I'd start him, despite Wes being a better all rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) How hard is it to get this player up field? It's slowly driving me insane. It is the most blatantly obvious fact that we are best when Furman gets forward. It's painfully and annoyingly obvious. Get Baxter just ahead of Furman (I'm not having Baxter is better dropping deep when his best spell was behind the strikers) and play Smith and Barnard ahead for a big man little man combination. I can't think of 1 defence in this league that could cope with that formation and with us being the 3rd lowest scorers something needs to change. Support from the revitalised Croft and maybe Obita and we should not come out of any game having scored less goals than the other team. I'll go now to internally combust. Edited March 3, 2013 by NewBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesidg Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I know TP is rotating to keep players fresh and we had one or two injuries but we need consistency, chopping and changing is the wrong approach at this stage imho. Hopefully next week we will see Bouzy Brown M'Voto Tarky] Grounds Croft Wes Baxter Obita Smith Barnard Furman back to the bench surely…. Although I can see TP starting Iwelumo, simply as he has done ok in the league and him and Barnard starting have brought us the points, Smith proved yesterday he is better as an impact Sub. I thought Iwelumo did well when he came on and found the space Smith was not finding and but for their second goal and the dodgy foul in their area that led to them getting off the hook when it should have been a corner, I truly believe we would have nicked a point late on. Agree with your team there Prozac With the ability to come off the bench for Simpson Iwelumo Byrne if fit , not sure when he's due back? Sutherland Winchester We didn't look like scoring yesterday , but tranmere have shipped some in some of the last few games We should aim to get a quick goal there, gaining confidence, keep the back door shut, and their fans will become restless 1-0 up at half time could turn into a 3-1 win Follow up with another win v Hartlepool , which I think may be a harder game, as we'll be expected to win that one I'd take a draw at trannies though and a sneaky one goal win v Hartlepool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I like Furman but don't think he deserves a place in the side currently. I certainly don't think Wes should have been dropped against Everton, especially in a game where the opposition were bound to have the majority of possession and we would therefore be looking to break up play as much as possible. That said, I don't think any club would pay a fee to loan Furman at this stage, so I'd go on with what we have, just not necessarily with him in the starting line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'd keep simply because we need a squad that has some depth till we are safe. This. Wesolowski's made of glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 1.) Stick with Furman, but I'm not too sure about him as captain. He needs to be chatting to the refs a bit more, like what their players were doing yesterday. Especially as it stops their players doing it. 2.) I think Obita has been marked as possibly struggling to play 2 games of 90 minutes in a week. Given that he has only really be playing league football for a year at most, he's had 3 loan spells prior to coming here. 3.) I thought TP got his tactics wrong yesterday, we looked a lot better when Simpson and then Iwelumo went up front alongside Smith with Baxter in a deeper role. However, the possible issues around my second point made it difficult to do that from the start. 4.) Wes over Furman alongside Baxter in CM for me. But Wes is not exactly a 50 game a season player. 5.) The loan window shuts at the end of this month, I think before the Swindon game though. We need some depth in CM for the fight we are in, Mellor and Winchester don't count. Furman is that depth. I doubt we will be able to get someone as good as Furman on equal or less money to replace him if we let him go to Donny on loan. 6.) The intrepid Chron reporter reckons neither the club nor Furman had heard anything about the Donny interest. So could easily been made up paper talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I said a couple of weeks ago (only half seriously) that Wes and Furman are like Lampard and Gerrard in that they can't play together. I'm starting to think its true. One of them playing with Baxter in CM seems to be our best option at the moment, behind two front men. At his best, Furman's the better footballer than Wes but I think Wes is better at doing the dirty stuff and allowing Baxter to get forward. I'd drop Furman for next Saturday and start with Wes. Baxter was out of sorts playing up front yesterday. Edited March 3, 2013 by bossrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Probably, but he's definitely gone in the Summer anyway, like a fair few of his mates. That's worrying as how many will bust a gut if say we are 4 points adrift with four games remaining? I do think we'll stay up but a couple coasted through yesterdays game Furman, Simpson and Baxter were all pretty poor and that's worrying. Saturday is massive, so is the following Tuesday against an in form Hartlepool outfit. The cup run has been fantastic, but in the cold light of day we have still only won 4 games in 15 and taken 10 points from 45 - to stay up we need to find some consistency and quick. The captain needs to be a focal point of the team and at the moment he's one of the first to hide. When we stayed up in '99 Dux was our leader, as were Garnett, Shez and Kelly. We need those onfield leaders now, so some need to step up to the plate. We can blame SC for that. We may as well have a team of season long loanees. He needs to offer contracts with extensions in our favour, plus the regular 2 and 3 year deals, so that we don't have a complete set of loanees again next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The problem is some players have been signed on long term deals in the past and had to be paid up well before the contract ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_fan Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Furman not been the same players since he started playing for South Africa. I reckon he will be moving on to better him self at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowl Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Agreed Appleby, Swailes, Purdie, Colbeck, lad from Tranmere name escapes me, spring to mind as drains on finances. Irony Swailes was rarely injured before he joined Latics. The last player was probably Warren Feeney who was on 2 grand a week and we had pay him off a year before his contract ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The last player was probably Warren Feeney who was on 2 grand a week and we had pay him off a year before his contract ended. Was Worthington released early ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Think Furman being ok mid-2010 was more to do with Dale Stephens than people make out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Was Worthington released early ? Think so. Holdsworth too. Gregan was paid off early. Going back a bit I'm fairly sure Ricketts didn't get past six months of a three year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Think Furman being ok mid-2010 was more to do with Dale Stephens than people make out. I've just posted elsewhere speculating that Stephens' departure may explain why we were 6th at the end of Feb 2011 and haven't looked close since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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