shaw_blue Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Been talking about this at the game I am under the impression that the 10 point deduction is the best case scenario for them if they dont come out of admin they are booted out of the league and the point gained today means the best total they can achieve is 40 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Been talking about this at the game I am under the impression that the 10 point deduction is the best case scenario for them if they dont come out of admin they are booted out of the league and the point gained today means the best total they can achieve is 40 points? This is the way I read it, I have already posted about this on the Coventry-25 topic. If I knew what I was doing with computers I would re-post that quote, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 You can't back them to go down ....as they are gone. They must leave administration before the end of the season or they are booted out of the entire league , quite why they are delaying the inevitable I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagger Lee Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 G'day - first post for me. I'm just as confused by this as others. Is holding off administration an excuse to keep their fans and players 'involved and motivated' for the last few games or is there something going on behind the scene we don't know about. If they leave it to after the last game is there a chance (asuming they finish above the relagation zone) that the 10 points will not be deducted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjonesyyoafc Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The hearing as to the worth of Fratton Park is next week, if the high court decides to take it off whoever owns it, Pompey are deducted 10 points instantly and the Supporter's Trust must then pay however much the debt and the amount required to purchase the club is, if they do so before the last round of fixtures (April 27th) they maintain the right to play in the Football League (probably League Two) if they can't afford this, Pompey are stripped of their right to play in the football league and instantly relegated, possibly to the blue square prem? Am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 My understanding is similar to iamjonesy. They have a High Court hearing next week to assess the value of Fratton Park and whether to force Chainrai to sell. If the Supporter's Trust can force the sale of Fratton Park through and take over the club then they will come out of administration and will then be deducted the ten points that they should have been deducted at the start of the season as you cannot start a season in administration without a deduction (i.e. if Coventry do not come out of administration by the start of next season they will face a further deduction). I am not sure of the reasons for the postponement of the deduction but the League agreed it would be postponed until they came out. They have reiterated since that the deduction will be enforced. If the club are unable to come out of administration before the last round of games then they will lose their Football League place. Best case scenario for Portsmouth is that they're a League Two club starting on zero points next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 My understanding is that the 10 points would be taken NEXT season, if Portsmouth are relegated. If they survive, they'll be taken this season which we effectively force them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Mikey Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 My understanding is that the 10 points would be taken NEXT season, if Portsmouth are relegated. If they survive, they'll be taken this season which we effectively force them down. If they are going down without the deduction it will be applied next season. Ken Bates put Leeds into administration when they were as good as down to try and avoid the punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 They aren't going into administration. They're coming out of it. The deduction anyway is for starting the season in administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 If they are going down without the deduction it will be applied next season. Ken Bates put Leeds into administration when they were as good as down to try and avoid the punishment. If they stay up and points come off them next season pretty sure at whoever expense would take it to a high court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 If they stay up and points come off them next season pretty sure at whoever expense would take it to a high court. I think you're misunderstanding MM's point. If Portsmouth finish 20th or higher on the basis of points accrued over 46 games then they will have the ten points deducted (which will mean they will be relegated irrespective of finishing outside the bottom four). If they finish in the relegation zone then they will have the points knocked off next season as a deduction will not be a punishment - they'll have been relegated anyway. FWIW I don't think MM is correct as the deduction is not for going into administration (a la Leeds) but for not coming out before the season started. Pompey managed to get it postponed until they come out of administration (for some reason) but they've already had their ten points for going into administration which ensured their relegation from the Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I think you're misunderstanding MM's point. If Portsmouth finish 20th or higher on the basis of points accrued over 46 games then they will have the ten points deducted (which will mean they will be relegated irrespective of finishing outside the bottom four). If they finish in the relegation zone then they will have the points knocked off next season as a deduction will not be a punishment - they'll have been relegated anyway. FWIW I don't think MM is correct as the deduction is not for going into administration (a la Leeds) but for not coming out before the season started. Pompey managed to get it postponed until they come out of administration (for some reason) but they've already had their ten points for going into administration which ensured their relegation from the Championship. This is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I think you're misunderstanding MM's point. If Portsmouth finish 20th or higher on the basis of points accrued over 46 games then they will have the ten points deducted (which will mean they will be relegated irrespective of finishing outside the bottom four). If they finish in the relegation zone then they will have the points knocked off next season as a deduction will not be a punishment - they'll have been relegated anyway. FWIW I don't think MM is correct as the deduction is not for going into administration (a la Leeds) but for not coming out before the season started. Pompey managed to get it postponed until they come out of administration (for some reason) but they've already had their ten points for going into administration which ensured their relegation from the Championship. Right understand you a few people where talking about this on Friday sounds simlair to when Southampton where relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Didn't Soton start on -10, or was that Leeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Didn't Soton start on -10, or was that Leeds? Soton started on -10 in their first season. Leeds started on -15 in their first season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) There is therefore some doubt as to their survival in the football league - the High Court might not force Chainrai to sell. If instead of relegation they are simply chucked out we have a problem, assuming the points from Portsmouth games are deducted, because we are the only team in the bottom 8 to have taken 6 points. With only Shrewsbury to play them the second time we end up with Shrewsbury 48 Preston 46 Carlisle 44 Colchester 40 Scunthorpe 38 Oldham 35 Bury 31 Hartlepool 29 Portsmouth 0 Which means that to be certain of safety we have to finish 3 points above Scunthorpe. So my idea of 7 points for safety becomes 10 to guarantee it. Which just goes to show that TP was right when he said we needed 51 points to survive! Edited April 3, 2013 by Hands on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) The answer to my own question is err not that simple. It is a matter of timing. Hopefully if the High Court says no there will be an appeal and Portsmouth will be allowed to carry on until the date of the appeal which I hope would be after 27th April. 12.2 Cessation of membership. If a Club (or Clubs) ceases to be a member of The League for any reason (including, without limitation, pursuant to Article 4 of the Articles of Association or by way of relegation or expulsion for disciplinary reasons): 12.2.1 during any Normal Playing Season, its playing record shall be expunged and the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members; 12.2.2 during the period between the end of the Normal Playing Season and the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match for that Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members; or 12.2.3 during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs. Edited April 3, 2013 by Hands on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 If they're not out of administration by the end of the season they forfeit the right to remain in the league as of next year. The league will not void their entire season once completed. No chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 There is therefore some doubt as to their survival in the football league - the High Court might not force Chainrai to sell. If instead of relegation they are simply chucked out we have a problem, assuming the points from Portsmouth games are deducted, because we are the only team in the bottom 8 to have taken 6 points. With only Shrewsbury to play them the second time we end up with Shrewsbury 48 Preston 46 Carlisle 44 Colchester 40 Scunthorpe 38 Oldham 35 Bury 31 Hartlepool 29 Portsmouth 0 Which means that to be certain of safety we have to finish 3 points above Scunthorpe. So my idea of 7 points for safety becomes 10 to guarantee it. Which just goes to show that TP was right when he said we needed 51 points to survive! Results are only expunged in the event of a club failing to complete its fixtures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) But if the HIgh Court refuses the application and there is no appeal or an appeal is heard and refused before 27th the Football League should expel Portsmouth forthwith. If they fail to do so and we don't have three more points than Scunthorpe, Scunthorpe might take action to have us relegated instead. Best thing is to get three more points than them or rather hope they get three less than us. After seeing their fans at Boundary Park I very much hope they do survive. Edited April 3, 2013 by Hands on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Pompey Supporters Trust (PST) have exchanged contracts to buy Fratton Park from the administrators but Chanrai has a charge on the property and is blocking the sale. The application seems to be that PST are offering a market price so that Chanrai has to allow the sale. Their case is said to be strong! The football league will only allow PST to take over the football club if the can buy Fratton Park. They have until the end of the season which for them is defined as 27th April - their last fixture. As I see it PST has to force the sale to them of Fratton Park by 27th April or they will be expelled. If the High Court refuses the application this does mean that we could lose six points. In theory if Pompey play their final fixture we would keep the six points, if they don't we won't. However if the matter is not decided before the final fixture in their favour they should be expelled and Scunthorpe could seek remedy in the High Court if we don't have three more points than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) If they have to come out of administration by the end of the season and the court do not allow the sale to PST then I still think the season will stand. If the League try and expel them mid-week before the last game then they would no doubt face an application to the court for an injunction to stop them doing so. If they have relied on an assurance from the League that they had until the end of the season they'd have a good shot at getting one. All that would be needed would be an interim injunction to allow the courts to have another think about it and we'd be home and hosed I wouldn't worry about it anyway. Thinking about it otherwise - would it be worth Scunthorpe risking sizable legal costs on a case of which the merits would be questionable? Probably not. Edited April 4, 2013 by jsslatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinodriscoll Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 from what i read on another thread, if the team doesnt finish its fixtures, its results would be taken out of the table and the league would have 1 less relegation place for that season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 from what i read on another thread, if the team doesnt finish its fixtures, its results would be taken out of the table and the league would have 1 less relegation place for that season Yes pompeys place. 4th bottom would still go down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Yes pompeys place. 4th bottom would still go down Don't think so as that would lead to a 25 team L1 and a 23 team L2 the next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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