blueatheart Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Here we go, straw man o'clock.Amazing how some people add valuable contributions to a discussion. *remembers on OWTB. Johnson out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Hmmm. I can see how away games (like all away games) could be loss making, but even a small home gate would add some funds to the clubs bank balance. I can't see the match officials fees and the cost of two-point-five stewards taking all the revenue. Preston will be aiming to cover the costs of hosting the game, but with it just being a fiver more people are interested. If latics were to win said tie, that creates a better atmosphere among the fans and a higher rate of repeat custom. God forbid if they play entertaining football and win 6-0. All of a sudden a breakeven gate can seem positive. Edit: I love watching latics at every given opportunity. JPT, League cup, FA Cup or league. I don't care, Christ make a fourth cup competition just for our division. I really don't care. Latics for me is a release and something I massively enjoy, regardless of losing to Carlisle in a penalty shoutout after a 0-0... 45% of gate receipts go to the opposition. From the remainder, factor in reduced prices, police costs, staff costs, floodlighting, etc and I reckon you're running at a loss. I'm pretty sure Alan Hardy stated a few years ago that every home tie in the JPT ends up costing the club money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I really like the JPT - yes the crowds are low in the first couple of rounds but the year we lost to Chesterfield there was a good atmosphere in BP for the games against Bradford and Chesterfield (and the away game was good as well - we'd have taken quite a lot more too had the game not been postponed the day before). The standard of opposition should not be sneered at - it's hardly like we've crushed all that have come before us in the last seventeen years. If we won the league I don't think people would be posting 'well it's only Division Three, it just reminds us that we're only now getting back to the Championship'. Actually sack that, this is OWTB. Of course some people would say that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) 45% of gate receipts go to the opposition. From the remainder, factor in reduced prices, police costs, staff costs, floodlighting, etc and I reckon you're running at a loss. I'm pretty sure Alan Hardy stated a few years ago that every home tie in the JPT ends up costing the club money. Yeah the 45% changes the sums, the split makes sense though. Edited October 7, 2013 by blueatheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm quietly confident that someone more famous than I said something along the lines of "winning breeds winning." I'd be quite interested in seeing how many teams get promoted within 16 months of winning the JPT or even getting to Wembley. Plus given the way the Financial fair-play is regulated getting to Wembley should mean that a club can afford to spend a bit more money the following season or even, depending, on the date of the final that season by taking advantage of the loan window still being open. As an addition to this imagine the scenario where we have a young talented player who has been attracting scouts from richer clubs. If a good run in the JPT means that we don't have to sell this player at a knock-down price as we need the money, I'd be looking for us to do well as we could in the JPT for that reason alone. The fact that for us to do well in the competition means a trip to Wembley on top then I say keep it. However, in the 17, or is it 18, years that we've been eligible to play in the competition we've not reached Wembley, despite often being a favourite at some stage to do so, is indicative of the other view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) A lot of teams who have won it end up with a promotion soon after. That said, I'm fairly sure Luton, Wrexham and Grimsby didn't last long in the a Football League after winning the trophy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Trophy Edited October 7, 2013 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm quietly confident that someone more famous than I said something along the lines of "winning breeds winning." I'd be quite interested in seeing how many teams get promoted within 16 months of winning the JPT or even getting to Wembley. Since the turn of the millennium, the winners: 99/00 - Stoke - 6th then 5th (lost in playoffs both times) 00/01 - Port Vale - 11th then 14th 01/02 - Blackpool - 16th then 13th 02/03 - Bristol City - 3rd then 3rd (lost in playoffs both times) 03/04 - Blackpool - 14th then 16th 04/05 - Wrexham - 22nd (relegated following points deduction) then 13th 05/06 - Swansea - 6th (lost in playoffs) then 7th 06/07 - Doncaster - 11th then 3rd (won the playoffs) 07/08 - Franchise - 1st (in L2) then 3rd (lost in playoffs) 08/09 - Luton - 24th (relegated from L2 following points deduction) then 2nd (in Conference, lost in playoffs) 09/10 - Southampton - 7th (missed playoffs following points deduction) then 2nd 10/11 - Carlisle - 12th then 8th 11/12 - Chesterfield - 22nd then 8th (in L2) 12/13 - Crewe - 14th then ??? Can't be bothered with the runners up, need to do some actual work now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc-latics Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Here we go, straw man o'clock. i've only ever known us in League One, so whilst it's not the Premiership or an FA Cup semi-final, the JPT is the closest thing younger fans have to silverware and a day out at Wembley. If we went all the way to the final, you'd struggle to find a Latics fan who wouldn't go just because it was in the JPT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 League One is pretty crap in fairness. If the basis from wanting the JPT scrapped is that its bobbins, then they are going to have to scrap this godawful division we are stuck in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I will never, ever, understand the viewpoint of not wanting to watch Latics win a game; any game. Nor will i ever understand the viewpoint of not supporting a competition that affords our now small-scale club the chance to reach the National Stadium and lift some silverwear. I don't get it. You've had what, 16 / 17 years to get your head around the fact we are in League One. This competiton shouldn't really have to remind you that's where we are; and have been for ages. We're in League One. That's where we are. This competiton is for us. We should try to win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Enrique Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 it's a cup competition we only qualify to participate in by virtue of being :censored:. it's a cup that celebrates being :censored:. there is no glory whatsoever in winning it. it would only serve to re-enforce and remind me & everyone else how :censored: we are. fair play to those that enjoy it. I mean you no harm. live and let live. never been to a JPT match, never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I would get rid of it given the chance, but I do see the positives in it. With Chesterfield and Shrewsbury for example it gave me the chance to go to grounds that I wouldn't usually go to. Shrewsbury was a really interesting experience, not just for the product on the pitch but also for the, um, "creative" chanting that went on that provided a different type of atmosphere from the norm. Cheaper prices and Wembley add to the appeal (I was gutted after Chesterfield got that winner at BP). Personally I'd get rid of the League Cup first. The idea of lots of 3 team groups with local derbies would be a great one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The idea of lots of 3 team groups with local derbies would be a great one. When they did this in the 1980s the crowds were woeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 There's a great article in FFT about the Full Members Cup - and although these kind of competitions didn't really capture the fans enthusiasm, you have to remember that in the 80's football was a dead end sport being played in grounds that were falling apart (full of character, but death traps nonetheless), with plummeting attendances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 i've only ever known us in League One, so whilst it's not the Premiership or an FA Cup semi-final, the JPT is the closest thing younger fans have to silverware and a day out at Wembley. If we went all the way to the final, you'd struggle to find a Latics fan who wouldn't go just because it was in the JPT. I was referring to the "mentality that would see Latics lose" comment that nobody anywhere in this thread has shown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 League One is pretty crap in fairness. If the basis from wanting the JPT scrapped is that its bobbins, then they are going to have to scrap this godawful division we are stuck in too. But we get something for winning League One. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I want us to win every game we play. There are some games I'm not bothered if we lose. First round of the JPT is top of that list. I'd happily bin all the cup competitions if it meant getting out of this :censored:ing league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The recent TV appearance was a League match. Note: Diego's information is wrong in a rarely changing past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Personally I'd get rid of the League Cup first. WHAAAAATTT??? Our only claims to fame are finishing 2nd in what is now the premier league nearly 100 years ago and finishing second in the league cup over 20 years ago. You want to delete 50% of our big time history to keep a :censored: pot cup that cant even 1/4 fill a ground at 1/4 of its usual price?? Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 you have to remember that in the 80's football was a dead end sport being played in grounds that were falling apart (full of character, but death traps nonetheless), with plummeting attendances. and that's different to now how...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddogs Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Would rather beat Preston and get 3 league points than progress in the tin pot cup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolatic Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 It didn't the only time we've done owt in it I know. That's why I said it gives us a chance to build up a run, not guarantee one. It's an opportunity missed if it disappears, IMO. Like the man said, you can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 But we get something for winning League One. We'd get something for winning the JPT. It's far down my list of priorities as a Latics fan, but I wouldn't scrap it. I'd much rather have a good FA or League Cup run than win the JPT (winning the JPT would never top beating Liverpool, Everton or City.) But I still want us to do well in it. Having said that, I won't be too upset if we lose tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 We'd get something for winning the JPT. A trophy! Idon't quite see the point of, "winning breeds winning," in terms of whether or not to scrap the competition, as we are as likely as anyone else to get humped in the first round each year as anyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joncurtis199 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Is the JPT really that much of a distraction from the league? I mean of course I'd trade a JPT cup run for a good crack at promotion, but its really not adding that much extra to the fixture list. Not when players train every day anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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