Latics and England Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No home league win since the 26th Oct including 2 games against league 2 opposition, only out of the bottom 4 on goal difference, are we allowed to criticise the club / players yet or is it still all ok because we're going to Anfield on Sunday? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Who is saying that the league form going to pot is OK because we are going to Anfield? I am not sure what you think should be being done about this mediocrity which you seem to think everyone is accepting. I certainly am not in a place where I am happy with mediocity but I feel that the best way to end it is to stick with a manager who is showing a lot of promise. I am hugely frustrated by the fact that we appear to be reverting to the 'same old Latics'. For me, the defeat against Chesterfield was a massive blow. Winning the JPT would have given us a lot of confidence which we could have rolled into next season. It didn't happen though. Sadly there is nothing I can do about that. I have seen a number of posts saying that we need to make wholesale changes to the playing squad. I disagree. What I want to see is us developing a core to the team who will still be with us next season. The way that LJ wants us to play takes a lot of getting used to. We have seen glimpses of it working but even now we are struggling with it. The only way we can get there is to allow the players time to perfect it. It is difficult to look at the long term when you are not happy with the here and now but that is exactly what we need to do. The last thing I want is to see the kind of turnover of players that we have witnessed for the last God knows how many years. Just look at how few of this current squad played against Liverpool last year. There is no way you can possibly build anything like that. I am also confused by all the negativity towards the game on Sunday. We all know that it is going to be difficult and we are not expected to win. I do not see the logical leap to 'Liverpool will get nine or ten'. There has been nothing in our performances, even recent ones, to suggest that this team will collapse like that. We have conceded 3 on three occasions this season and never more. Furthermore, those three occasions were two 3-2 defeats and a 4-3 victory. Hardly us getting battered. To see comments about wishing we had gone out to Mansfield (not in this thread) is a joke. After Sunday, it is quite possible that we will have nothing to look forward to other than a relegation battle. That, to me is better than us being in that same position three weeks ago after the Mansfield game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs synic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The manager goes on and on about needing more creativity in home games to break teams down, yet nothing changes, it's about time he backed up all his fine words with action. why did he change the system, he went back to 442 to fit his mate in {dayton } why not continue with 433 at home and give it as chance, after all we can all see that 442 at home with our players is clearly not working, , if you want empty your ground carry on scoring at the present rate, we need to get more players in their box and stop playing pretty football in FRONT of them, we have no midfield runs into their box, smith being the biggest culprit, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blu-Blood Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Whilst he's been out, I've read a lot of people saying that we are missing Dayton, especially after the Montano situation and whatever is going on with Sidney. Now he's back playing, he is only in because of his 'Mate' switching our system? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolOwl Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LJ will take us up in a year or two. He's had bad luck and is learning his trade but is infinately more able than his shyster predecessor who lasted nearly three seasons. He will learn that experience in four or five key positions is necessary but he has done a great job in developing several youngsters that rotted with Dickov, and has the nucleus of a very good L1 team. He is unfortunate with players such as Mac, Lanzoni and Montano (thae latter seemed to knock the stuffing out of him for a while (because he is an honest, loyal and decent professiona) Clubs such as Latics have to be positive and we should be thinking of the Championship in the short term and Premier in a decade. We have history and are surrounded by a massive and growing conurbation where we can survive in the top flight. We have always had the threat of the two Manchester clubs, but empires rise and fall. It's only a few years ago that there was a growing view that City were doomed, with huge debts and renting the Commonwealth ground post Maine Road, awaiting oblivion. Some of the big Premier clubs will implode, badly managed and with huge liabilities. Many Continental teams have come from nowhere to positions of power. Other teams benfit from neighbours' demise, not least Juventus when the Torino team was destroyed in a second when a plane hit an Alpine mountain. Good management is the key, as well as luck with investors. If Wigan and Swansea can do it so can we. When I return to Oldham I find a terrible negativity, not least about Latics. That reactionary view has to change; Thatcherism and Globalisation have to be challenged and changed. Part of the fight involves local democracy, involvement, and control of institutions such as football clubs. We've come from the pits before and will do so again. One essential is a top class manager and the three we've had since 1945 have become legends and brought back large crowds, kudos and pride and a positive, healthy outlook. LJ can be a fourth successful post-war manager, if we are patient. We can hope that Corney moves on soon and we get new directors with the money, competence and vision to take us forward in the long term. For once, Oldham council is on our side. New stand, new optimism. Once LJ brings reinforcements and gets his failures moved on for next season, we can enjoy the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 LJ will take us up in a year or two. He's had bad luck and is learning his trade but is infinately more able than his shyster predecessor who lasted nearly three seasons. He will learn that experience in four or five key positions is necessary but he has done a great job in developing several youngsters that rotted with Dickov, and has the nucleus of a very good L1 team. He is unfortunate with players such as Mac, Lanzoni and Montano (thae latter seemed to knock the stuffing out of him for a while (because he is an honest, loyal and decent professiona) Clubs such as Latics have to be positive and we should be thinking of the Championship in the short term and Premier in a decade. We have history and are surrounded by a massive and growing conurbation where we can survive in the top flight. We have always had the threat of the two Manchester clubs, but empires rise and fall. It's only a few years ago that there was a growing view that City were doomed, with huge debts and renting the Commonwealth ground post Maine Road, awaiting oblivion. Some of the big Premier clubs will implode, badly managed and with huge liabilities. Many Continental teams have come from nowhere to positions of power. Other teams benfit from neighbours' demise, not least Juventus when the Torino team was destroyed in a second when a plane hit an Alpine mountain. Good management is the key, as well as luck with investors. If Wigan and Swansea can do it so can we. When I return to Oldham I find a terrible negativity, not least about Latics. That reactionary view has to change; Thatcherism and Globalisation have to be challenged and changed. Part of the fight involves local democracy, involvement, and control of institutions such as football clubs. We've come from the pits before and will do so again. One essential is a top class manager and the three we've had since 1945 have become legends and brought back large crowds, kudos and pride and a positive, healthy outlook. LJ can be a fourth successful post-war manager, if we are patient. We can hope that Corney moves on soon and we get new directors with the money, competence and vision to take us forward in the long term. For once, Oldham council is on our side. New stand, new optimism. Once LJ brings reinforcements and gets his failures moved on for next season, we can enjoy the ride. I don't share your confidence that he will take us to the Championship in the next couple of years - it would be a huge achievement. And the statement that he is more able than Dickov is, for the moment, a completely baseless assumption as he's proven nothing yet. I hope he is afforded patience and I agree that, should we avoid relegation this term, then he should remain as manager in August but I'm still to be convinced he's anything more than the nice feller, good talker and marketer that Dickov showed himself to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayvan Cowboy Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Any links? No, you'll have to take my word for it. Or search anything Latics related on social media Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 He will learn that experience in four or five key positions is necessary but he has done a great job in developing several youngsters that rotted with Dickov, a Tarky and ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 well, Winchester, Mellor and Millar are featuring more than they ever have. They're actually being spoken to and worked with in training now; which I would imagine is nice for them as opposed to what they experienced last season and before. And, it's purely hypothetical, but I highly doubt that Gossett, Truelove, Cooper, Bove & Pritchard would have had game time for the 1st team under the previous regime. I don't think LJ would have gone in for Plummer had Jack Truelove not got his bad injury either - he'd have been put into the side. Tarky is the real shinning example of the development - but the true results of LJ's faith in youth players will come when Gossett, Simpson, Truelove, Pritchard, Bove and others form a chunk of the side in a year or two's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Maybe so, but I'd hardly call it a great job of developing our youth players. Millar and Winchester look no closer to being mainstays in the first team than ever before. Mellor is getting a run but is hardly pulling up any trees. And have the others named ten appearances between them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayvan Cowboy Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 How brilliant a surname is Truelove by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs synic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Whilst he's been out, I've read a lot of people saying that we are missing Dayton, especially after the Montano situation and whatever is going on with Sidney. Now he's back playing, he is only in because of his 'Mate' switching our system? Really? yes really, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Maybe so, but I'd hardly call it a great job of developing our youth players. Millar and Winchester look no closer to being mainstays in the first team than ever before. Mellor is getting a run but is hardly pulling up any trees. And have the others named ten appearances between them? It is a sad statement but true - of the youth players we have seen breaking into the first team, only Tarkowski looks the part with Mellor and Winchester showing some promise but not quite making that leap to becoming a full time first team player. The question is how long do we persevere with this generation before we move them on and move to the next group of likely lads (Bove, Pritchard, Gossett)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 How brilliant a surname is Truelove by the way.Not as good as Gusset. I think Winchester is ready for the first team by the way. If Petrasso leaves he'd be my first pick at rm and he's the best rb currently with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 It is a sad statement but true - of the youth players we have seen breaking into the first team, only Tarkowski looks the part with Mellor and Winchester showing some promise but not quite making that leap to becoming a full time first team player. The question is how long do we persevere with this generation before we move them on and move to the next group of likely lads (Bove, Pritchard, Gossett)? Of the youth team goalkeeper Joel Coleman is the one who could step up, I like his fearless (some might call it impetuous) attitude, at 6' 3" and almost 13 stone he is an imposing keeper, good in the air and comes off his line to command the area, not the finished article yet, but a gem to polish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Agree that now Lanzoni has left, Winchester is the next best in our ranks IMO. As i've said though, Brown did have a very impressive 1st half at Coventry. Play that week in; week out and i'll have to change my opinion of the peckjng order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Of the youth team goalkeeper Joel Coleman is the one who could step up, I like his fearless (some might call it impetuous) attitude, at 6' 3" and almost 13 stone he is an imposing keeper, good in the air and comes off his line to command the area, not the finished article yet, but a gem to polish.If he's 13 stone that doesn't sound all that imposing for someone who is 6ft3, it will give him a BMI of 22.75, I'd guess at least one of your so-called light-weight players elsewhere have greater BMIs. He might be a good prospect but Simpson is definitely ahead of him in the pecking order. If Paul signs his new deal, he'd be ahead of too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) If he's 13 stone that doesn't sound all that imposing for someone who is 6ft3, it will give him a BMI of 22.75, I'd guess at least one of your so-called light-weight players elsewhere have greater BMIs. He might be a good prospect but Simpson is definitely ahead of him in the pecking order. If Paul signs his new deal, he'd be ahead of too. A 17 years of age he's still growing, in comparison what were Gary Kelly and Mark Crossley's BMI, both fine keepers? Edited January 2, 2014 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If he's 13 stone that doesn't sound all that imposing for someone who is 6ft3, it will give him a BMI of 22.75, I'd guess at least one of your so-called light-weight players elsewhere have greater BMIs. He might be a good prospect but Simpson is definitely ahead of him in the pecking order. If Paul signs his new deal, he'd be ahead of too. He shouldn't even be doing heavy weight sessions for a year or two, how much do you want a schoolkid to weigh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If he's 13 stone that doesn't sound all that imposing for someone who is 6ft3, it will give him a BMI of 22.75, I'd guess at least one of your so-called light-weight players elsewhere have greater BMIs. Is this the same BMI concept which concluded that all Olympic rowers should get themselves down to Fat Fighters sharpish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Is this the same BMI concept which concluded that all Olympic rowers should get themselves down to Fat Fighters sharpish? Yep which is why when an imposing GK has a BMI of 22.75 (normal; 25+ is overweight; and 30+ is obese), it suggests that he isn't that imposing. BMI has some significant flaws and the rowers being a prime example, but this is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 He shouldn't even be doing heavy weight sessions for a year or two, how much do you want a schoolkid to weigh? His weight is fine for me but it's not characteristic of being an imposing Goal Keeper, there are some tests which show if a 17 year old has stopped growing. I wouldn't necessarily have any of our players doing a heavy weight session anyway, but some low or medium intensity weight sessions are probably not going to do him any harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A 17 years of age he's still growing, in comparison what were Gary Kelly and Mark Crossley's BMI, both fine keepers? Don't know and it won't be easy to work out as you'd need their heights and weights from when they were playing. As a comparison though IIRC Cisak's BMI was just under 25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Of the youth team goalkeeper Joel Coleman is the one who could step up, I like his fearless (some might call it impetuous) attitude, at 6' 3" and almost 13 stone he is an imposing keeper, good in the air and comes off his line to command the area, not the finished article yet, but a gem to polish. Of the youth team goalkeeper Joel Coleman is the one who could step up, I like his fearless (some might call it impetuous) attitude, at 6' 3" and almost 13 stone he is an imposing keeper, good in the air and comes off his line to command the area, not the finished article yet, but a gem to polish. If am honest only seen him play a few times not gonna write him off but don't rate him myself. He didn't command his box enough for me his distribution and handling at times was poor his reaction was quite slow. I rate the young keeper Paul Tyson more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Getting back to the point - Dickov had the gift of the gab whereas LJ explains what he thinks and has been honest with us. Championship football is a realistic aim but will only be achieved on our budget by building a squad of young players and managing to keep hold of most of them. The odd sale to improve rather than paper up the finances. Most importantly you have to have continuity of management. I hope LJ is the one! I hope the moaning and stupidity displayed here doesn't put him off because undoubtedly come the end of next year there will be other clubs looking to tempt him away. The team is being built, LJ is learning his craft, the future could be bright, we will finish mid table. Edited January 2, 2014 by Hands on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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