24hoursfromtulsehill Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 As daft as it sounds, and as much as I want us to go up, having kept us where we are with everything that's gone on could be viewed as quite an achievement. I'd love to ask him/them if, in hindsight, they wish they'd thrown more money at it when we had 6000 crowds and were flirting with promotion. It would have cost them less in the long run I reckon. I reckon the answer is planning fiascos plus recession. The recession problem isn't just bums on seats - the original BP plans and the Failsworth pipe dream were based on real estate values, which have bombed badly up north in the past six or so years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I reckon the answer is planning fiascos plus recession. The recession problem isn't just bums on seats - the original BP plans and the Failsworth pipe dream were based on real estate values, which have bombed badly up north in the past six or so years. Find it weird that we'd have been in Failsworth now had those plans come off. Makes me wonder if we'd have been any better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I was backing Shez, but the point about the backing may be key - he presumably asked for and was given a load of cash for loanees, and he spent it on :censored:e that was worse than what we had. I agree, when you look a the players Shez had at his disposal towards the end he had very little faith in some very good players for this level. As for Royle coming in I think it was a massive gamble which completely and utterly failed and if it had been anyone else but Royle the fans would have been going absolutely mental about the appointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Shez did a good job for a couple of years. I don't think he had any say in bringing Lee Hughes in, and I think Hughes had a very detrimental effect on the dressing room. The whole thing was falling apart around Shez and there wasn't really any coming back from doggate, which I always thought was a bloody awful idea in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I was in the camp of giving Shez until the end of the season and if it didn't work then completely rebuild the squad and backroom staff in the off-season. Although with hindsight I could understand if the board thought a collapse was inevitable after the MK defeat. I would be interested to know what Royle's job description was for the last 9 games. After the MK Dons defeat we were only 2 points off the playoff spots, two games later after the Cheltenham game where Danny Whitaker got the last kick equaliser we were still only 4 points off, before letting Hughes go 2 days later. If Royle's job was to give us a last push to try and get promotion through the playoffs then letting Hughes go was the white flag in that respect and the wrong move regardless of whether he was being a knob or not. If Royle's job was to rebuild the squad for the following season with 9 games to go and only 2 points from the playoffs then the board must shoulder the responsibility for lacking ambition. Of course if we knew at the time that Royle was breaking up the side for Dave Penney to rebuild then I'm sure there would've been more of an uproar. Benefit of hindsight I guess. I thought at the time the decision to let Hughes go was a disgrace and have not changed my mind since. We were four points off the playoffs and gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I thought at the time the decision to let Hughes go was a disgrace and have not changed my mind since. We were four points off the playoffs and gave up. Finance before football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Finance before football. I'd imagine promotion may have offset Hughes' bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Villains Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I was in the camp of giving Shez until the end of the season and if it didn't work then completely rebuild the squad and backroom staff in the off-season. is completely rebuilding the squad actually ever planned to happen in football? and if it is, why? or is it just a reactionary throw away fan comment that means absolutely jack :censored:? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) is completely rebuilding the squad actually ever planned to happen in football? and if it is, why? or is it just a reactionary throw away fan comment that means absolutely jack :censored:? Yep, it's been a knee-jerk opinion of mine for the last 5 years. Shez built his squad in a relatively steady manner over the 3 years in charge, especially between season 2 and 3 where he barely let anyone go and only made a few permanent additions (which succeeded, until bringing in multiple short term loans towards the end of his reign led to his downfall). By the end of the season we were looking for a different philosophy and style of play, meaning that 3 or 4 changes to the squad/adding to what was already there wouldn't have worked at the end of the season and turnover needed to be large. Royle letting Hughes go (backed up by interviews with him and Corney soon after iirc) was the clearest sign that the club were planning to change the squad in quite a radical way. Clubs with a strong identity or philosophy won't have such a big turnover of players year-on-year. Clubs who are attempting a big change to their ideology are the one's who look to completely rebuild. I think that, while Royle would have been correct to change the style of the club at the end of the season, there was no need to do it with nine games to go. It goes without saying that Dave Penney turned out to be the wrong person to trust with that responsibility. Edited February 10, 2014 by the_mighty_bosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey1980 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Whilst he was an absolute hero of mine, there was absolutely no way that Shez was turning that ship around. Dean Windass painted an absolutely sorry picture of our dressing room at that time at a sportsmans dinner I attended. He described Shez as increasingly frustrated and critical of his players - absolutely slating them on a regular basis. He also alluded to the fact that Shez himself might not have been in control of his demons at that time and the club was increasingly rudderless with powerful and irresponsible players (possibly himself included) running riot. As such the decision to appoint Royle makes perfect sense as an older and universally respected figure to try and rectify the situation......unfortunately by then it was too late! The decision to jettison Hughes smacks of England a'la KP at present - I think they had just had enough and trust between the team and management was non-existent. Whether you think the decision was right or wrong, that I feel must have been the main reason. It was a disaster it finished like that for Shez though as he deserved better. The team he built the season before, leading into and out of xmas, were playing the best football we had seen at BP at any point in the last 20 years. I also think as a few have alluded to, that was the point that we started to cut our cloth firmly for this level at management level. Penney was part of that decision and his signings reflected it. Hopefully finally now LJ can start to drag our club and hopefully our support onwards and upwards again!! Edited February 10, 2014 by whitey1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Whilst he was an absolute hero of mine, there was absolutely no way that Shez was turning that ship around. Dean Windass painted an absolutely sorry picture of our dressing room at that time at a sportsmans dinner I attended. He described Shez as increasingly frustrated and critical of his players - absolutely slating them on a regular basis. He also alluded to the fact that Shez himself might not have been in control of his demons at that time and the club was increasingly rudderless with powerful and irresponsible players (possibly himself included) running riot. As such the decision to appoint Royle makes perfect sense as an older and universally respected figure to try and rectify the situation......unfortunately by then it was too late! The decision to jettison Hughes smacks of England a'la KP at present - I think they had just had enough and trust between the team and management was non-existent. Whether you think the decision was right or wrong, that I feel must have been the main reason. It was a disaster it finished like that for Shez though as he deserved better. The team he built the season before, leading into and out of xmas, were playing the best football we had seen at BP at any point in the last 20 years. I also think as a few have alluded to, that was the point that we started to cut our cloth firmly for this level at management level. Penney was part of that decision and his signings reflected it. Hopefully finally now LJ can start to drag our club and hopefully our support onwards and upwards again!! That's a brilliant, informative post. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Don't forget that Big Joe wanted to stay, but said we needed funds for the transfer market. He offered to work for free and donate his salary to the transfer kitty IF Corney would match the amount. Safe to say Corney nearly had a coronary and :censored:ed him right off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Find it weird that we'd have been in Failsworth now had those plans come off. Makes me wonder if we'd have been any better off. I was someone who would have backed the failsworth plan on the grounds that things have too (still have too) change if we are to have an Oldham Athletic of any note in the future. However looking back the U turn on the Oldham Arena development and the move to Failsworth split the fanbase too much and lead to the start of a distancing of relations between Blitz Gazal, and Corney and the supporter. I've never believed that they were in this to make money, knowone with an ounce of sanity would look to involve themselves with us to make money. However the decision gave that perception to alot of people who might not know better, and going through with it would have only made that worse Project Failsworth proved to be 2 years wasted and for me the biggest mistake of the last 10 years as it proved to only alienate the fans. What should have been pursued then is to do an amended version of the BP redevelopment, which is basically what has happened now although unless the redevelopment of BP goes beyond 1 stand and a few add onns which are ofcourse a positive we are staying a league 1 club for some time to come. Edited February 11, 2014 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Failsworth would have been the best thing to ever happen to this club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Failsworth would have been the best thing to ever happen to this club. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroyboy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Failsworth would have been the best thing to ever happen to this club. How could you possibly judge that? Darlington fans would have been thinking on similar lines. History gives us the 'facts' on what happened there. In the meantime I will stick to living memory for the best thing that has happened to this club, IMO. - The three years in the top flight and being founder members of the Premier League. The future, what if? No one knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) How could you possibly judge that? Darlington fans would have been thinking on similar lines. History gives us the 'facts' on what happened there. In the meantime I will stick to living memory for the best thing that has happened to this club, IMO. - The three years in the top flight and being founder members of the Premier League. The future, what if? No one knows. A bit of a different situation really, we were trying to keep within our means and not build a 25k seater stadium. Their owner was also a bit more Chris Moore than Simon Corney. Edited February 11, 2014 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroyboy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A bit of a different situation really, we were trying to keep within our means and not build a 25k seater stadium. Their owner was also a bit more Chris Moore than Simon Corney. Agreed! But every club that has gone belly-up has 'a bit of a different situation'. In the case of how we would have fared in Failsworth - it was hotly debated at the time by fans. It was far from being viewed unanimously as a 'good' move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Failsworth would have been the best thing to ever happen to this club. I disagree. It would have and did alienate many fans as it looked to be a move out of Oldham. Depends whether you look at Postcode and what not. The best moves put forward to move the club, would probably have been SportsPark2000 to be built on Westwood Running Track/Clayton Playing Fields. Or the Ferny Field move to Chadderton, would have provided plenty of space for stadium and other commercial opportunities. However, staying at Boundary Park was always the best option, for me and i'm sure for the future of the club. Links with the motorway, bus links and not too far from Manchester make the ground accessible to everyone. It's also our traditional home, just a shame that the land can't and won't be built on to such as extent that TTA would have wanted under the first Oldham Arena plans. Bloody Nimbys and economic downturn! Edited February 11, 2014 by Latics_Fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Failsworth would have been the best thing to ever happen to this club. A highly controversial opinion (and is that a split infinitive in there too?) I don't think it would've been as terrible as people think. A few would've stayed away and a few would've gone. It was a nice-looking ground on the plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A highly controversial opinion (and is that a split infinitive in there too?) I don't think it would've been as terrible as people think. A few would've stayed away and a few would've gone. It was a nice-looking ground on the plans. I might have over-egged the pudding a wee bit, certainly couldn't see too many negatives at the time though. It would have made us more attractive to potential investors, in fact I reckon we would be rid of TTA by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) I might have over-egged the pudding a wee bit, certainly couldn't see too many negatives at the time though. It would have made us more attractive to potential investors, in fact I reckon we would be rid of TTA by now. Not sure about the potential investors. In League 1, when people say "potential investors" they really mean "people who are rich and dumb who don't mind throwing a :censored:load of cash beyond the event horizon of the black hole of football". It would've been a nice stadium where you can have a beer and a singsong. The ones who wanted to stay at Boundary Park in any circumstances are also the ones who won't move from the Chaddy End even though the RRE is better. Edited February 11, 2014 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 when is the new stand scheduled to open then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Not sure about the potential investors. In League 1, when people say "potential investors" they really mean "people who are rich and dumb who don't mind throwing a :censored:load of cash beyond the event horizon of the black hole of football". It would've been a nice stadium where you can have a beer and a singsong. The ones who wanted to stay at Boundary Park in any circumstances are also the ones who won't move from the Chaddy End even though the RRE is better. True, I was all for a bit of boom and almost certain bust with Koukash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) when is the new stand scheduled to open then ? It was reported on here, from the last ‘Meet The Manager’ session in January, that LJ Barry said the stand would probably not be ready for the start of the season but it is progressing. Money matters still not fully nailed down. Edited February 12, 2014 by Diego_Sideburns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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