Latics_Fanatic Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Just ignoring the inconvenient failures of your point though doesn't change the reality You said we shouldn't expect information... Yet... The Trust (FECKING US - MEMBERS OR NOT IT WAS OUR MONEY) own 3%... It cost us £200k to buy it... We have board room access... For reasons unknown though certain people won't share the information we paid for.... No it doesn't change the reality. The reality is that you won't get that sort of access to information at board room level. Have we ever, since having the trust, had that much information about anything from the club? I might be abit too young to remember early on, but from my reckoning I don't think so. If you want to talk about reality, we will never get that sort of transparency unless we were fan-owned, and we might as well fold the fecking club should it come to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 To be fair to SC, Blitz and co.... I have never once heard them saying the fans can't know something. I have only ever heard them saying they have an open door and people have been allowed access to the accounts etc. The only time I have heard people say I am not important enough to know something has been from other fans. That is as strange as it is terrifying really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) If you want to talk about reality, we will never get that sort of transparency unless we were fan-owned I think this line sums up your off centre with your comments here... If we was fan owned it would be via the Trust. Considering we are not getting the information / communication we should be from our 3% ownership... What makes you think it would improve if we had 100% ownership ? It would be the same. So the current reality dictates that we wouldn't get any more information if we was fan owned. Edited April 1, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 To be fair to SC, Blitz and co.... I have never once heard them saying the fans can't know something. I have only ever heard them saying they have an open door and people have been allowed access to the accounts etc. The only time I have heard people say I am not important enough to know something has been from other fans. That is as strange as it is terrifying really. It's all about PR. They aren't going to come out and say that the fans aren't entitled to know anything, they're obviously going to parade their welcoming open-door policy - a way of engaging with fans and keeping them happy. The reality is quite different, isn't it? Why don't you email Simon and demand that you know every innate detail about the football club and it's financial dealings. We'll see how open-door it is then. This isn't a dig at Corney either, he's doing his best in a :censored: situation. I just don't understand some fans lust for knowledge of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think this line sums up your off centre with your comments here... If we was fan owned it would be via the Trust. Considering we are not getting the information / communication we should be from our 3% ownership... What makes you think it would improve if we had 100% ownership ? It would be the same. So the current reality dictates that we wouldn't get any more information if we was fan owned. Because the Trust wouldn't be able to run a football club in it's current predicament, it would have to reform and open up to the masses in order to sustain itself as the owners of Oldham Athletic. The Trust in it's current state, doesn't allow this opening up - 97% shareholding by Simon Corney probably doesn't allow it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's all about PR. They aren't going to come out and say that the fans aren't entitled to know anything, they're obviously going to parade their welcoming open-door policy - a way of engaging with fans and keeping them happy. The reality is quite different, isn't it? Why don't you email Simon and demand that you know every innate detail about the football club and it's financial dealings. We'll see how open-door it is then. This isn't a dig at Corney either, he's doing his best in a :censored: situation. I think you largely missed my point there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) I just don't understand some fans lust for knowledge of everything. sigh I think it comes to your bigger picture... Do you think your involvement should be like a co-operative.... or like going to the cinema / Tesco / buying any other product.... I think it should be like a co-operative... And will keep pushing for that style of interaction... I wish you luck with the tried, tested and failed approached of viewing it like a Cinema.... Edited April 1, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Because the Trust wouldn't be able to run a football club in it's current predicament, it would have to reform and open up to the masses in order to sustain itself as the owners of Oldham Athletic. The Trust in it's current state, doesn't allow this opening up - 97% shareholding by Simon Corney probably doesn't allow it either. You are way out I feel.... The club seems to be largely headed up by SC and Barry at the moment. If SC ever walks away I would imagine Barry would front up the club without much problem. Is there ever been any other plan ? news to me if so... As SC said... If he got hit by a bus in the morning the club would function much the same... Which in some ways is a good thing... The concept the Trust would suddenly become everything it hasn't been is largely laughable I am afraid. Edited April 1, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 sigh I think it comes to your bigger picture... Do you think your involvement should be like a co-operative.... or like going to the cinema / Tesco / buying any other product.... I think it should be like a co-operative... And will keep pushing for that style of interaction... I wish you luck with the tried, tested and failed approached of viewing it like a Cinema.... In an ideal world, of course it should be like a co-operative. But in Oldham, with just over 3000 coming through the gate, you won't get that. This is why we are now treated as the customer rather than someone within the club. The changing nature of football and the domination of the financial side obviously hasn't helped either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) In an ideal world, of course it should be like a co-operative. But There really isn't a but... If you believe the first part then the next part is just you giving up on what you think is right... Which of course is up to you. But don't bemoan the rest of us for still arguing for a better world! When you said, I don't understand why some fans expect to know so much... Did you really mean it ? as it would seem you know exactly where some of us are coming from... Edited April 1, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 You are way out I feel.... The club seems to be largely headed up by SC and Barry at the moment. If SC ever walks away I would imagine Barry would front up the club without much problem. Is there ever been any other plan ? news to me if so... As SC said... If he got hit by a bus in the morning the club would function much the same... Which in some ways is a good thing... The concept the Trust would suddenly become everything it hasn't been is largely laughable I am afraid. Barry Owen running a football club, single-handedly. Jesus. On that note, I think it's time for bed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Barry Owen running a football club, single-handedly. Jesus. On that note, I think it's time for bed... Try not to have nightmares And hope SC doesn't get hit by a bus :P Night Nice debating with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 This is why we are now treated as the customer rather than someone within the club. Football clubs want your money, not your opinion. It's ALWAYS been that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 People are delving into business that is quite frankly, none of their business. I think as fans, some demand too much. In this case, you are correct. Fans of OAFC do not have any input into how the club is run or managed, that's the way it is - I'll say it again, if you don't like it - buy the club and run it your way, start a fan owned co-operative in the NWCL, or take it on the chin. But don't start moaning like :censored: when you think something isn't right with the club, you can't change it. And for anybody in any doubt about Owen's position in all of this - because I thought there may be a glimmer of hope - in the recently released video he speaks like a company man, not like a fans representative on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) But don't start moaning like :censored: when you think something isn't right with the club It's my god given right as a football fan to moan I do accept it makes :censored: all difference though Edited April 2, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I don't have prior experience of Wizzo, I'm just going off what's been posted in this thread. So many people are saying "we knew this" and then explaining the facts, but they all have different versions of these facts, which kind of suggests that a lot of people don't know the real facts. One poster says the £1m assets in PCW is to build the stand, but others say Brassbank is building the stand, and others say OAFC. These are pretty much mutually exclusive. The fact that the net assets of OAFC stand at -£5.4m at least tells me that with a £6m liability, there must be £600k of assets. That's something I didn't know. Also, if the lease exists as an actual guarantee, it should in theory have some value. That it appears not to have suggests that it has restrictive clauses that reduce its value to nil. Depends what is meant by building it as technically both PWC and Brassbank are building it, one as the contractor and the other as the ultimate landowner (without knowing the finer detail). Car park income, is their any proof or is this speculation? Good questions regarding what the split is and it would be good if Baz could answer it, however does anyone have any reason to believe it's not going through the club i.e. If the new stand is included in the lease arrangements? Lease - it would be good to know if a new lease has been signed (as per chaddy smoker) yet - another Baz query for the AGm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 sigh I think it comes to your bigger picture... Do you think your involvement should be like a co-operative.... or like going to the cinema / Tesco / buying any other product.... The Co-operative Bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) ....well the whole idea was for that not to be the case... The whole idea was we put up £200k for 3% of the shares and get that access to the board level.... AS per the latest Annual Return of Oldham Athletic 2004 AFC Ltd submitted to Companies House on 9/12/13 Director Simon Corney has 97 shares which are A Ordinary Shares with full voting rights and Oldham Athletic Supporters Foundation Ltd has 3 shares which are Ordinary B shares. The 3 Ordinary B shares have NO VOTING Rights as per that declaration. In other words SC owns the Company, the Football Club, so there is sweet F A We can do about anything really. Edited April 2, 2014 by ChaddySmoker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Edited April 2, 2014 by yarddog73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 From what I've seen, there's been quite a bit tonight on Twitter, in regards to exchanges between Wizzo and Paul Whitehead. Yes, with Wizzo coming off looking like a right wally. I mean, he ended one of his tweets with "fact." Anyone who does that to try and enforce a point is just a :censored: in my eyes, regardless of whether they're right or (more often than not) wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFC_Ryan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I get it, but it's one that has been misused. Even before Simon called me an anti-Semitic :censored:. Anti-semitic? I'm not following... I made the joke as this thread is half bollocks and half people's imaginations, just like all conspiracy theories. It was no way a pop at Simon, quite the opposite.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 AS per the latest Annual Return of Oldham Athletic 2004 AFC Ltd submitted to Companies House on 9/12/13 Director Simon Corney has 97 shares which are A Ordinary Shares with full voting rights and Oldham Athletic Supporters Foundation Ltd has 3 shares which are Ordinary B shares.The 3 Ordinary B shares have NO VOTING Rights as per that declaration.In other words SC owns the Company, the Football Club, so there is sweet F A We can do about anything really. I never said we bought voting rights... We bought access... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I don't see any concern at the moment, a new stand is going up, hopefully division one status will remain, and the Micah Richards sell on looks very likely . A lot better position than many clubs in the football league I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 The Co-operative Bank? To some extent but I am talking about it in more general terms. The coop business model is used by lots of succesful and happy companies. Football clubs would be better run if they where all run in such ways. This coupled with transparency, fans representation etc... It would be good... If you want to talk about coop banks very recent issues then it's not really relevant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I never said we bought voting rights... We bought access... Yes access to be told what to do, face to face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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