The World Cup 2014: Unofficial owtb discussion thread

[GlossopLatic]

But how do we sort our mess out?

 

The obvious route is to make the Premier clubs start with a number of English players but I've no idea if that is legally enforceable.

 

But a bigger problem is not just the lack of UEFA badged coaches in this country compared to Germany, France, Spain and Holland but the quality. Ex-players get their badges but train kids to play the same football that has failed us for years. Maybe it's time to import someone to oversee and overhaul the coaching system (I could be wrong on this one but wasn't Gerard Houllier considered by the FA because he sorted out French football?) and also bring in a whole layer of foreign coaches to start with, say, 10 year olds and moving forward with them and the following age groups and breaking the cycle.

 

Oh, and give the Under-21 manager the power to demand players for age group tournaments.

 

 

You've sort of answered your own question England don't produce coaches and because of that we don't produce managers and because of that our players that are as good as they could be. Its 22 years since an English manager (Howard Wilkinson) won our domestic league look at the coaches the other nations have produce in that time The italians have had Lippi, Capello, and Ancelotti who have all won the champions league The Spanish have had Del Bosque, Guardiola, Benitez who have all won the champions league, The Dutch have produced Hiddink and Van Gaal, The French have had Wenger, Deschamps, Jaquet who have all done far more than any English manager.Sort the coaching out and as Rummy has pointed out have more 3G astroturf pitchs for winter weather, scrap the ridiculous PL league 3 idea and then we can start to make progress.

 

Incidentally today England have slipped to 20th in the Fifa ranking behind world footballing super powers Costa Rica, Chile, 11 places behind Switzerland, and Bosnia, and most disturbingly of all only 7 places ahead of Scotland!

[slystallone]

 

 

You've sort of answered your own question England don't produce coaches and because of that we don't produce managers and because of that our players that are as good as they could be. Its 22 years since an English manager (Howard Wilkinson) won our domestic league look at the coaches the other nations have produce in that time The italians have had Lippi, Capello, and Ancelotti who have all won the champions league The Spanish have had Del Bosque, Guardiola, Benitez who have all won the champions league, The Dutch have produced Hiddink and Van Gaal, The French have had Wenger, Deschamps, Jaquet who have all done far more than any English manager.Sort the coaching out and as Rummy has pointed out have more 3G astroturf pitchs for winter weather, scrap the ridiculous PL league 3 idea and then we can start to make progress.

 

Incidentally today England have slipped to 20th in the Fifa ranking behind world footballing super powers Costa Rica, Chile, 11 places behind Switzerland, and Bosnia, and most disturbingly of all only 7 places ahead of Scotland!

...but that's about right ranking wise i'd say isn't it?

 

On the biggest stage, Costa Rica, Chile and the others proved themselves to be better than us?

 

We havent won anything since '66 and only Euro '96 gave a glimmer of hope that it might might actually change. After this WC; i'd say it's looking even more forlorn...

 

Its the coaching, the structure of the game, and its issues like young players at smaller clubs taking the 1st available chance to make a "big" move & thrn seeing their careers stall or go backwards; sitting in a Premier League sides youth football system.

 

One of my old Uni Tutors left in my 3rd year for a job at the FA; and a fair few years ago now, I bumped i to him at a hotel in Leeds. He was staying there with the England Under 19s.

In a private chat, away from the players and possible eaves droppers; he told me he wasnt enjoying his job, as the lads in this side; and the u17s who he also worked with were basically jumped up little :censored:s who didnt listen to him or have any respect for any of the staff.

One replied to him that morning that he wasnt listening to him as he was a nobody who earned less in year than he'd paid for the watch on his wrist. He was an 18 year old lad. He was at Chelsea. He was earning £8 grand a week + bonuses; and he wasn't within a sniff of the 1st team then. Madness.

 

Players get too much too soon here; especially atbthe top levels. We reward atheletes over technical players, and our game is rigid, its fast & its end to end, but it's not very fluid and it doesnt adapt & evolve.

 

No quick fix will do any good. Wholesale changes wont feap any return for years & years. Defeatest i know, but the World Game has moved on, and we havent.

[rudemedic]

...but that's about right ranking wise i'd say isn't it?

On the biggest stage, Costa Rica, Chile and the others proved themselves to be better than us?

We havent won anything since '66 and only Euro '96 gave a glimmer of hope that it might might actually change. After this WC; i'd say it's looking even more forlorn...

Its the coaching, the structure of the game, and its issues like young players at smaller clubs taking the 1st available chance to make a "big" move & thrn seeing their careers stall or go backwards; sitting in a Premier League sides youth football system.

One of my old Uni Tutors left in my 3rd year for a job at the FA; and a fair few years ago now, I bumped i to him at a hotel in Leeds. He was staying there with the England Under 19s.

In a private chat, away from the players and possible eaves droppers; he told me he wasnt enjoying his job, as the lads in this side; and the u17s who he also worked with were basically jumped up little :censored:s who didnt listen to him or have any respect for any of the staff.

One replied to him that morning that he wasnt listening to him as he was a nobody who earned less in year than he'd paid for the watch on his wrist. He was an 18 year old lad. He was at Chelsea. He was earning £8 grand a week + bonuses; and he wasn't within a sniff of the 1st team then. Madness.

Players get too much too soon here; especially atbthe top levels. We reward atheletes over technical players, and our game is rigid, its fast & its end to end, but it's not very fluid and it doesnt adapt & evolve.

No quick fix will do any good. Wholesale changes wont feap any return for years & years. Defeatest i know, but the World Game has moved on, and we havent.

I'd have sat the lad in the stands for the next game and a quiet chat "off the record" and anonymously with someone in the press as to why. He won't be earning £8k a week after that. Lots of players earn more than their manager- even the very well paid Jose Mourinho won't always earn more than the players they manage. It's the same in other professions, for example my Mum makes more than her boss. They still treat them with the respect they've earned.

 

As to how to fix the national team, like you say, the problems run a lot deeper than the top level. The picking of athletes ahead of footballers is definitely one of the many issues, but look at Arsenal, lots of very good talented footballers in their squads for the last 7 years, it took them until this year to actually win anything and how many Germans have they got in their side, plus judging by the gossip they will be getting another one in. When England had a decent side, I don't think it was coincidence that quite a few of that side either had or were about to get the experience of playing in Europe. If every major international tournament was played on cold Tuesday nights in Stoke I think we would do a lot better, they aren't so we won't. The well-rounded experience of playing in Europe is definitely beneficial in my view, the same way playing in England is beneficial for the Germans, French and especially the Italians and Spanish etc. That benefit is currently only one way, and whilst it won't be the only reason I think the most important reason is financial, why pay £10,000,000 for a good player from the PL and then £75,000 pw when you can get as good a player for £7.5million and £45,000 pw from other countries. Look at how much Luke Shaw and Adam Lallana cost compared to Alexis Sanchez.

[GlossopLatic]

Your right sly it is about right and it's a pretty :censored: state of affairs.

 

The story you give about the players doesn't surprise me as too many of them are given too much too early. That problem is harder to solve unless you give coaches more power but who gets the blame when things go wrong it's rarely the players is it it's usually the manager or the coach the players no this so they don't care.

[leeslover]

I'd have sat the lad in the stands for the next game and a quiet chat "off the record" and anonymously with someone in the press as to why. He won't be earning £8k a week after that.

So essentially if you'd been chief of discipline under David Platt, Stuart Pierce and Gareth Southgate, with a dual spin doctor role, we'd have won the world cup and the big clubs would have brought their prima donnas into check.

 

NURSE!!!!

[Monty Burns]

But how do we sort our mess out?

 

 

Easy. Find all the best Turkish and Polish players and turn them English.

[Monty Burns]

In all seriousness though, I think we will go a long way in Euro 2016 with the likes of Lallana, Shaw, Barkley, Chamberlain, Sturridge, Stones and Wilshere coming to the fore alongside players like Hart, Rooooney and Walcott.

[leeslover]

In all seriousness though, I think we will go a long way in Euro 2016 with the likes of Lallana, Shaw, Barkley, Chamberlain, Sturridge, Stones and Wilshere coming to the fore alongside players like Hart, Rooooney and Walcott.

It's a Golden Generation