yarddog73 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Exactly. So whose gimp is he then? Is Owen picking the team then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Let's be honest Winchester has not had a real chance has he? If you believe that you are a :censored:in idiot! Player of the Season starts one league game, isn't on form and then is dropped for the next 4, hardly even getting minutes from the bench. Seems fair by this manager... I honestly can't see 'plenty of' negatives that he possesses, bearing in mind that he is 22. His ability to defend is wildly underrated, and there's not much he can't do in an attacking sense, as we all know. He may be a bit inconsistent, but you have to ride that out with any youth player - that is par for the course. His desire can't be questioned, like someone above has tried to do. His goals have always come at important times, and he's one of few players that can step up a level when required. Edited August 31, 2015 by NewBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So whose gimp is he then? Is Owen picking the team then? Fair question. It's not as if we have hugely experienced director of football type hanging around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Defensive boring football it will be this season, if he is the player to go that says a lot about the managers intentions. A back four with two holding midfielders, it will be a yawn fest especially at home, I had hoped Kelly was true to his word about expansive attacking football but its probably not going to be anything like that. That's just pure rubbish. To say that our only hope of good football depends on Winchester playing defies all logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 His desire can't be questioned, like someone above has tried to do. His goals have always come at important times, and he's one of few players that can step up a level when required. Why can't his desire be questioned? I'm in no way say it should be, but remember none of us on here see him day in day out in training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 He may be a bit inconsistent, Was he inconsistent last season though once he became a fixture in the starting 11? I don't think so. He didn't consistently score or create goals but his all round play was a solid 7 week in, week out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Defensive boring football it will be this season, if he is the player to go that says a lot about the managers intentions. A back four with two holding midfielders, it will be a yawn fest especially at home, I had hoped Kelly was true to his word about expansive attacking football but its probably not going to be anything like that. That's just pure rubbish. To say that our only hope of good football depends on Winchester playing defies all logic. Does it defy all logic as much as saying he said something that he didn't say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Does it defy all logic as much as saying he said something that he didn't say? do you mean "Defensive boring football it will be this season, if he is the player to go" = if he is the player to go, this season will be Defensive boring football = Rubbish ??? or are you saying that DK didn't give his word on expansive football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 do you mean "Defensive boring football it will be this season, if he is the player to go" = if he is the player to go, this season will be Defensive boring football = Rubbish ??? or are you saying that DK didn't give his word on expansive football? I'm saying you said he said "that our only hope of good football depends on Winchester" which he didn't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Player of the Season starts one league game, isn't on form and then is dropped for the next 4, hardly even getting minutes from the bench. Seems fair by this manager... I honestly can't see 'plenty of' negatives that he possesses, bearing in mind that he is 22. His ability to defend is wildly underrated, and there's not much he can't do in an attacking sense, as we all know. He may be a bit inconsistent, but you have to ride that out with any youth player - that is par for the course. His desire can't be questioned, like someone above has tried to do. His goals have always come at important times, and he's one of few players that can step up a level when required. 80 first team appearances and he is still classed as an inconsistent youth player. When does that change? 120 apps? 200 apps? Plus U21 games in the verge of the full NI squad Winchester has had a full pre-season and we are 5/6 games into the season. Just because you haven't seen him as a regular does not mean he hasn't had the chance with Kelly. If he is not showing up in training especially now we have the strongest midfield for years why should he pick him? His desire can be questioned by his manager if he isn't putting it in. I don't know the lad and I don't work with him. I keeping seeing hints on here that he smokes. If that's true and a 3rd manager may question his desire? Why not? especially when fitness is an issue with him I am in no way argueing that Winchester is not a class player. He would probably be in my side every week and I think he can make the step up although I think it's too early yet. A POTS award does not automatically make you a star player either. It just means you were a good player in another team that struggled in the past here. Is he better than Dunn? Kelly? Jones? Philli has also been a consistent performer this season? Edited August 31, 2015 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm saying you said he said "that our only hope of good football depends on Winchester" which he didn't say. Sorry, yes he did. See the explanation in #133 above. The direct quote is "Defensive boring football it will be this season, if he is the player to go" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 80 first team appearances and he is still classed as an inconsistent youth player. When does that change? 120 apps? 200 apps? Plus U21 games in the verge of the full NI squad Winchester has had a full pre-season and we are 5/6 games into the season. Just because you haven't seen him as a regular does not mean he hasn't had the chance with Kelly. If he is not showing up in training especially now we have the strongest midfield for years why should he pick him? His desire can be questioned by his manager if he isn't putting it in. I don't know the lad and I don't work with him. I keeping seeing hints on here that he smokes. If that's true and a 3rd manager may question his desire? Why not? especially when fitness is an issue with him I am in no way argueing that Winchester is not a class player. He would probably be in my side every week and I think he can make the step up although I think it's too early yet. A POTS award does not automatically make you a star player either. It just means you were a good player in another team that struggled in the past here. Is he better than Dunn? Kelly? Jones? Philli has also been a consistent performer this season? HarryBosch brought it up before, really what do you expect from a 22 year old player in his first regular season in his preferred position? He was consistent enough to play week-in-week-out last season and pick up one of the big awards. Never had a stinker that I can recall. Played better some weeks than others but that is life, and the best in the world go through the same. I don't class him as inconsistent - we had a turbulent season to say the least, and it can't have been easy for many of our players - that is the idea the nay-sayers are trying to push. I'm not saying he would go now and rip up the Championship either, but many clubs can see the ability and potential that young players have, which some of our fans just can't, and that is of high value these days. There's talk of big money offers for Ryan Woods of Shrewsbury, who is a few months younger than Winchester and had his best year in League 2. I'm not arsed about what he does off the field if he is good on it, and neither should anybody else. I'm not convinced this whole 90 minutes is anything but a myth either. I think his Scunthorpe goal last season repudiated that. You have to just put some faith in a young lad at times and I don't know whether this manager is prepared to do that with him, unfortunately. He's a better footballer than Philliskirk and Croft, and I think he has got to be played, especially with Kelly out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) HarryBosch brought it up before, really what do you expect from a 22 year old player in his first regular season in his preferred position? He was consistent enough to play week-in-week-out last season and pick up one of the big awards. Never had a stinker that I can recall. Played better some weeks than others but that is life, and the best in the world go through the same. I don't class him as inconsistent - we had a turbulent season to say the least, and it can't have been easy for many of our players - that is the idea the nay-sayers are trying to push. I'm not saying he would go now and rip up the Championship either, but many clubs can see the ability and potential that young players have, which some of our fans just can't, and that is of high value these days. There's talk of big money offers for Ryan Woods of Shrewsbury, who is a few months younger than Winchester and had his best year in League 2. I'm not arsed about what he does off the field if he is good on it, and neither should anybody else. I'm not convinced this whole 90 minutes is anything but a myth either. I think his Scunthorpe goal last season repudiated that. You have to just put some faith in a young lad at times and I don't know whether this manager is prepared to do that with him, unfortunately. He's a better footballer than Philliskirk and Croft, and I think he has got to be played, especially with Kelly out. Managers who have worked with him on a daily basis think he has a fitness issue and you think it's a myth. You have joined list of posters on here who don't believe things coming from the club when it suits their argument. What if the manager, his boss feels that what he does off the field affects what he does on it, then it becomes an issue doesn't it? Like in any job! Why would any manger never mind 2 or 3 mention his fitness an a issue. How would that benefit them? If they don't want to pick him they could use many reasons. Unfit players can score goals as well. His fitness is not based on what he does with the ball. It was great goal but it doesnt prove anything other than he has natural ability we both know that. You are correct a manager needs to show faith in all his players but Coleman, Burn, Brown, are all youngsters ( I haven't checked their ages) but he has shown faith in them... Edited August 31, 2015 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dec666 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Managers who have worked with him on a daily basis think he has a fitness issue and you think it's a myth. You have joined list of posters on here who don't believe things coming from the club when it suits their argument. What if the manager, his boss feels that what he does off the field affects what he does on it, then it becomes an issue doesn't it? Like in any job! Why would any manger never mind 2 or 3 mention his fitness an a issue. How would that benefit them? If they don't want to pick him they could use many reasons. Unfit players can score goals as well. His fitness is not based on what he does with the ball. It was great goal but it doesnt prove anything other than he has natural ability we both know that. You are correct a manager needs to show faith in all his players but Coleman, Burn, Brown, are all youngsters ( I haven't checked their ages) but he has shown faith in them... Who, apart from Johnson, has led you to infer there is a fitness issue with Winchester? I watchd him run 40 yards to score the winner at Scunthorpe in the 85th minute last season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 TL;DR anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I sit in my chair and masturbate over Winchester as much as the next man but there's no denying he often looks completely :censored:ed in the last 15 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Who, apart from Johnson, has led you to infer there is a fitness issue with Winchester? I watchd him run 40 yards to score the winner at Scunthorpe in the 85th minute last season... Dickov said exactly the same thing and then LJ had the same reasoning. If Kelly hasn't mentioned it then I hold my hands up....but he isn't picking him? You saw him run from nr the edge of the Scunthorpe box, not 40 yards and as stated in a previous post anybody can score a goal with the ball the real fitness issues will come to light when he is working for the team without the ball after 85minutes under the cosh. At least 2 managers took him off before that point in the match the majority of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 You have joined list of posters on here who don't believe things coming from the club when it suits their argument. If it was possible to bet on the opposite of what comes out of the club being the reality a lot of us could be very rich... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 You saw him run from nr the edge of the Scunthorpe box, not 40 yards and as stated in a previous post anybody can score a goal with the ball Why are we struggling so much to do so then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If it was possible to bet on the opposite of what comes out of the club being the reality a lot of us could be very rich... So again why would they lie about one players fitness over and over again. As you say a lot of the stuff coming out may be untrue but I think we both know they wouldn't lie about one of our most saleable assetts especially when it would bring the price down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Why are we struggling so much to do so then? One goal against Scunthorpe 4/5 months ago. Is that the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 So again why would they lie about one players fitness over and over again. Because they're expected to speak and give us the ins and outs of a duck arse about every tiny detail nowadays. They have to say something and most of those somethings are to cover their own duplicitous arses. Something I like about DK is he seems to hate the media bollocks and gives very little away. Some have already moaned about this but I like the fact he seems to play dumb on a lot. (Hopefully it doesn't transpire that he actually is a bit dumb, which is a possibility from what we've been told ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 One goal against Scunthorpe 4/5 months ago. Is that the answer? I don't know. It certainly isn't a valid answer answer to my question. You said "anybody can score a goal with the ball".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 One goal against Scunthorpe 4/5 months ago. Is that the answer? I don't know why you've typed those words but, he's scored since then hasn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Do you include Connor Brown in "anybody"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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