Magister Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 THis for me. We've had 4 managers in that time. Except, Dunn leaving, I think we need an experienced manager, if only because our position is so perilous. I went to Gillingham, I saw the way the players can play for him, I think long term he has a case. I just think time is fast running out and we can't get enough players to save us. And a decent manager would be able to get this lot playing enough to be in a better position we are in, giving a longer time to sort the root of the problems. Look at Johnson (whom I loathe) he came in and lifted the players, and saved us from relegation. That is the sign of a manager with potential. Johnson was left with a team of players who had won at Notts F away beaten Liverpool drawn with Everton.....in the previous month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Because we will be relegated. There's a good chance we will be anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Johnson was left with a team of players who had won at Notts F away beaten Liverpool drawn with Everton.....in the previous month! PS hadn't Philliskirk just won 3 league games with them too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Johnson was left with a team of players who had won at Notts F away beaten Liverpool drawn with Everton.....in the previous month! True, but we were 20th place, having played a game more than everyone in the relegation spots and the football was dire. Those players had won 7 and lost 29. The Cup was very much an escape, excellent play as it was. He still had to lift the team, and was young too. In many ways the situation was similar to how it is now, without the cups to fuel some joy. I can't believe I am sat here defending Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 PS hadn't Philliskirk just won 3 league games with them too? Which supports the change in manager theory more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 There's a good chance we will be anyway. Exactly... because regardless of the manager the other factors hold true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 True, but we were 20th place, having played a game more than everyone in the relegation spots and the football was dire. Those players had won 7 and lost 29. The Cup was very much an escape, excellent play as it was. He still had to lift the team, and was young too. In many ways the situation was similar to how it is now, without the cups to fuel some joy. I can't believe I am sat here defending Johnson. Come on Singe lets not rewrite history. Johnson was appointed on 18 th March 2013. On 16th March our playing record was won 10 drawn 6 lost 20. 36 points from 36 games. We had won 3 of the previous 8 under Philliskirk we won 4 of the last 10 under Johnson Given that and the cup run this was no great metamorphis of a team or it's fortunes beginning with Johnson Ps we therefore won 14 that season and scraped staying up.....we have won 3 this season! Has anybody still got any doubts about the hole we are in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Come on Singe lets not rewrite history. Johnson was appointed on 18 th March 2013. On 16th March our playing record was won 10 drawn 6 lost 20. 36 points from 36 games. We had won 3 of the previous 8 under Philliskirk we won 4 of the last 10 under Johnson Given that and the cup run this was no great metamorphis of a team or it's fortunes beginning with Johnson Ps we therefore won 14 that season and scraped staying up.....we have won 3 this season! Has anybody still got any doubts about the hole we are in LEt's use your comparision, a fair one. Up to 2nd Feb under Dickov. 36 pts/36 games. 1.0 pts per game Feb 2nd to 16th Mar under Philly W3 D1 L4. 10 pts/8 games 1.25 pts per game 18th Mar to End of season under Johnson W4 D3 L3. 15 pts/10 games 1.5pts per game.. I didn't say he was the Messiah, I said he turned it round, fortunes did improve. Johnson compared to Dickov by 50%. If we carried on with Dickov or Philly's point tally ratio we would have been relegated. The point was he came in and lifted the players to get a better points return after his arrival, Dunn has not, they have dropped. I still believe that this team needs tinkering, a few decent additions, a decent (well, experienced) manager . I don't believe it needs two transfer windows and a complete change in player personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 No experienced manager worth his salt will touch the job though. So you will end up with a Mark Yates type and such a type won't be afforded any time by the supporters to try to turn things around, things stay the same and 20 games later the same heads will be chirping up saying we need to make another change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 No experienced manager worth his salt will touch the job though. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Why? Because they haven't done the last three times it was vacant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Because they haven't done the last three times it was vacant. I'm willing to bet there were plenty of experienced candidates from the exceptional list when they appointed Kelly. Just because we choose a flawed template (needs at least 6 months Reserve team level football) does not mean they would not apply again. In fact, if we state we are only looking at managers with experience, arguably more would actually apply. And rather than going off someones interview or bull:censored: baffling brains or 100 pages dossier, simply look at their record. If they have done the same thing with more than one team then they should be on the shortlist. Then it is down to the interview, those with the best records (in context of course) shortlisted. We are attractive, as the Chairman will back you to an extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Attracting applicants is never a problem. Giving them something to work with is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Attracting applicants is never a problem. Giving them something to work with is. Dunn has plenty to work with and is failing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Dunn has plenty to work with and is failing This is half the problem, people keep harking back to last year and judging everything from that. Until that stops we can't move forward again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) This is half the problem, people keep harking back to last year and judging everything from that. Until that stops we can't move forward again. Why not? It is a fair comparision. It is largely the same group of players. If it was completely different, fair enough, but it is not. And Dunn's additions have been largely ineffectual. Edited December 31, 2015 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Absolutely and most importantly harking back to a perceived reality rather than the actuality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Absolutely and most importantly harking back to a perceived reality rather than the actuality Just to be clear, I was not arguing that the end of Jhhnson reign was wonderful and we were not already on a downward spiral. That was evident the frst time Johnson's link with Evans started. And you will see around the 3rd of Jan I called Johnson's position, pretty much on my own everyone was siding with Johnson against the Board, as untenable becasue he could not just leave it to the Board.It was his choice or theirs, neither cast him in a good light. You may have not even been referring to me, and that is fair enough, I am not assuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 This is half the problem, people keep harking back to last year and judging everything from that. Until that stops we can't move forward again. Well we'll probably be in a position to move on soon enough because all the players that were decent at the start of last season will probably be sold. And replaced with what? A load of unproven loan signings that Dunn judges as better. I'm going with the perception that it's better the devil you know on the playing front. We know the players have the ability because they've proved it, even if it was over a year ago and while the players are far from blameless, the fact that they've had no decent, permanent manager in the last year is undoubtedly a factor in their decline. As for Dunn - he had an insight by working with the players while Kelly was in charge, so could make a fair assessment of their ability before he became manager. If he thought the players weren't good enough and was just going to ride out the first few months with dreadful performances, with the hope against hope that he'll get it sorted in the next transfer window (or is it the transfer window after that now?), he really shouldn't have taken the job on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 This is half the problem, people keep harking back to last year and judging everything from that. Until that stops we can't move forward again. You're so far up Dunn's arse it's unreal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjagger Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 You're so far up Dunn's arse it's unreal time to start and forget the and wait for Barry to suggest a few more players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Why? Because they will want paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 This is half the problem, people keep harking back. FTFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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