oafc0000 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Hillsborough inquests: Retired South Yorkshire Police officers 'proud' of force - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36156906 They really give zero :censored:s don't they... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'm not sure what they should be more proud of, causing the deaths of 96 people then systematically lying about it for nearly 3 decades, or not bothering to investigate children being raped in Rotherham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Wasn't there a big crash on the motorway leading to a lot of Liverpool fans turning up late? Hence the problem of the crowding at the gate that hadn't been seen at games previous, Read this morning and thought of your comment... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-35473732 Myth 1: Liverpool fans arrived 'late and without tickets'After the disaster, allegations emerged from "unnamed sources" - later established to be a Police Federation spokesman and the Sheffield Conservative MP, Irvine Patnick - claiming Liverpool supporters had "deliberately arrived late determined to force entry" to the ground. What we know: The claim formed the basis of the "rock solid" defence South Yorkshire Police [sYP] sought to present at the 1989 Taylor inquiry into the disaster. The aim was to "deflect blame on to supporters" and exonerate the police. While many Liverpool supporters did arrive after 14.30, the inquest was told evidence suggested it was actually the "failure to control the crowd" and "inadequate" turnstiles that led to the fatal crush. The jury heard evidence from former South Yorkshire Police inspector Clive Davis who recalled being told by former Ch Supt Terry Wain "to put the blame for this disaster where it belongs: on the drunken, ticketless Liverpool fans". This was denied in evidence by Mr Wain. However, he admitted a report he prepared had exaggerated claims that "several thousand" spectators had arrived at the ground within minutes of kick-off. The inquests heard the 10,100 fans with standing tickets for the Leppings Lane end were expected to enter through just seven turnstiles, causing congestion outside the ground. Lord Justice Taylor, in his 1990 report into the disaster, concluded fans were reasonable to arrive between 14.30 and 14.40 as match tickets only requested people be in their places "15 minutes before the game". He was also satisfied that the large concentration of fans arriving at Leppings Lane at 14.40 to 14.50 "did not arrive as a result of any concerted plan". He concluded that police had "failed" to prepare for controlling the arrival of a large number of fans in a short period. Both the club and police "should have realised the turnstile area could not easily cope with the large numbers demanded of it" unless they arrived steadily over a lengthy period. He accepted there were "small groups without tickets" looking to "exploit any chance of getting into the ground". But the main problem was simply one of "large numbers packed into the small area outside the turnstiles". He stated categorically that "fans' behaviour played no part in the disaster". The Hillsborough Independent Panel (HIP) report concluded crowd congestion outside the stadium was "not caused by fans arriving late" for the kick-off. The turnstiles, it said, were "inadequate to process the crowd safely" and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up outside the ground. What the jury said: The behaviour of Liverpool supporters did not cause or contribute to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I'm not sure what they should be more proud of, causing the deaths of 96 people then systematically lying about it for nearly 3 decades, or not bothering to investigate children being raped in Rotherham. Apparently catching the Yorkshire ripper makes up for it all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Funny how not one of the dozens of cameras at Hillsborough managed to get a photo of Liverpool fans attacking police. And there's no way they wouldn't have been all over the front page of every newspaper if they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 This tragedy could so easily have been avoided, especially when many Liverpool fans had reported crushing in the Leppings Lane End in 1988, leading to Liverpool FC lodging a complaint prior to the 1989 FA Cup Semi-Final. The crucial mistake by the police commander was that, before ordering the opening of the gate to ease the crush outside, a person was not positioned at the entrance to the centre tunnel, to inform fans that that section was already full and to direct them to the two side tunnels, leading to the comparatively empty terraces.The Hillsborough disaster is a microcosm of how society operates, with a history of injustice, cover-up and collusion. The bereaved and survivors, of whom over 700 were injured, will long be remembered for the heroic stances they took against the might of bureaucratic forces in the name of justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Is this the official view of the OWTB team? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Shame to hear a few young lads singing about Munich and Hillsborough on the way down to the youth game tonight I've just read my messages and I blame myself for not being around as much these days to help with the moderation, what with starting up a new business and lots of other stuff going on. This is not the Pine Villains, and not OWTB - and the account has been suspended. What Andy witnessed and said above is the next fight for us all - remove the hatred from football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 What Andy witnessed and said above is the next fight for us all - remove the hatred from football. Good luck with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Good luck with that After you spend sometime away from the heat of supporting a club every day... You come to realise how hating someone from the next town along just because they watch a different football team is just utterly weird.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 After you spend sometime away from the heat of supporting a club every day... You come to realise how hating someone from the next town along just because they watch a different football team is just utterly weird.... Yeah, it takes not going for 6 years to make you think like a reasonable human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) After you spend sometime away from the heat of supporting a club every day... You come to realise how hating someone from the next town along just because they watch a different football team is just utterly weird.... Nah. Even if Oldham go pop tomorrow, in ten years time I'll pretty sure I'll still hate the red :censored:e (in all their guises) and their 'fans'. Edited April 29, 2016 by oafcmetty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Yeah, it takes not going for 6 years to make you think like a reasonable human being. It would seem so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 After you spend sometime away from the heat of supporting a club every day... You come to realise how hating someone from the next town along just because they watch a different football team is just utterly weird.... Yes, because going to football matches inevitably means you become a hate filled animal. That's the same logic that South Yorkshire police had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Word twisting alert ^^^^ But to answer your point directly... No, supporting a football team doesn't inevitably mean you become a hate filled animal... I am simply saying taking a break from being a supporter certainly opened my eyes to some of my previous behaviour as a fan and I am actually quite ashamed about it. Some of the things I used to feel. Some of the things I used to think. Some of the songs I used to sing. I can't even put it down to youth! Its all just utterly bazzare to me now. It would be hard to argue it doesn't have an effect on some people following a club. Look at the comments from Pine Villians above and others. Or does Liverpool fans rightly not being blamed for the Hillsborough disaster mean that football fans are now only saints and all of footballs problems are in the past and anyone thinking different is as bad as the c**ts at South Yorkshire Police ? Interesting.... The tribalism we see in the game and what it leads to is still a big problem. Some of the hatred is outstanding. Its to the point where some people can't see beyond the lies spun by the police because they simply "hate" Liverpool fans. Are you really saying you don't see the issue ? There are a number of examples just clicks away.I really think there are very few people attending games at the weekend who are not affected by this tribalism to some level. The way some people would view someone totally changes if you change the environment to a football match and put a different coloured shirt on their backs. Edited April 29, 2016 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I think there's quite a gap between football fans being saints and football fans thinking it's ok to sing songs about Hillsborough and Munich, and I'd like to think that most people don't need to stop going to the match to realise that. Some people who watch football are :censored:. So are plenty of people who don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Fans behaviour is all shades of grey. What I deemed acceptable behaviour would change from what I did on match day and what I did in a normal walk of life. You don't recognise that change it all? Now I come to realise what I deemed "acceptable" on those Saturdays was actually quite horrible and I was hardly any sort of trouble maker or bad egg. No doubt some people attend a Football match the same way someone might attend the Cinema, in a very calm and respectful manner. I think for a lot of fans though its closer to my experience and there behaviour is distinctly different on a match day. It create a sort of fire in your belly. This is way off topic about Hillsborough now. Those fans had nothing to do with the disaster and I don't want anyone making any more stupid links between what I am saying above and the disaster. Its disrespectful to the families if nothing else and disrespectful to me as its clear I placer NO blame on the fans. NONE. They are very separate chains of thoughts. Edited April 29, 2016 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 On a lighter note, we're now at a stage where it's ok to laugh at SYP's testimony, right? I think my favourite bit was when they were chatting :censored: about how much Liverpool were drinking, and one of their former officers claimed they saw a Liverpool fan "drinking from a carafe of wine" while walking to the ground. A. :censored:ing. Carafe. Leeslover gets funny looks for drinking wine out of a placcy glass in the RRE, imagine how much piss you'd get ripped out of you in 1989 walking down the road with a load of scallies from Kirkby and Bootle drinking from a :censored:ing carafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 I have always laughed out loud at that comment from the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Vindication. I don't think we can ever fully understand the determination and courage required to fight for 27 years to unveil the disgusting corruption between institutions that are supposed to protect British citizens. Those bastards involved still need investigating for the Orgreave fiasco in 1984. Previously censored documents reveal links between an alleged cover-up carried out by senior South Yorkshire Police officers at the time of Orgreave and the force’s actions five years later at Hillsborough. http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/exclusive-the-links-between-south-yorkshire-police-hillsborough-and-orgreave-cover-ups-five-years-apart-1-7890633 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Who would think that in our society, the great democracy, that it took 25 years for a proper Inquest and 27 years for justice to be achieved. Errrr anybody with a brain. Our society is corrupt as :censored:. Thanks to the naiivety of blind bastards like you (and 95% of the population) stuff like this, stuff like paedo cover ups, stuff like wars for profit, stuff like MP expenses scandals will continue to happen and you will be just as surprised next time, and the next time and the next time... ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Errrr anybody with a brain. Our society is corrupt as :censored:. Thanks to the naiivety of blind bastards like you (and 95% of the population) stuff like this, stuff like paedo cover ups, stuff like wars for profit, stuff like MP expenses scandals will continue to happen and you will be just as surprised next time, and the next time and the next time... I think that the original post was slightly tongue-in-cheek.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I think that the original post was slightly tongue-in-cheek.... 27 years is a long time - although It's interesting to note how cataclysmic events have long fallout periods before they can be assimilated rationally. Society needs to distance itself from an era in order to view it wholly and objectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On a lighter note, we're now at a stage where it's ok to laugh at SYP's testimony, right? I think my favourite bit was when they were chatting :censored: about how much Liverpool were drinking, and one of their former officers claimed they saw a Liverpool fan "drinking from a carafe of wine" while walking to the ground. A. :censored:ing. Carafe. Leeslover gets funny looks for drinking wine out of a placcy glass in the RRE, imagine how much piss you'd get ripped out of you in 1989 walking down the road with a load of scallies from Kirkby and Bootle drinking from a :censored:ing carafe. I often drink from a glass flute in Wavertree, although our ketwigs do wear Balenciagas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I often drink from a glass flute in Wavertree, although our ketwigs do wear Balenciagas... Take it that's the Garden Suburb bit rather than Smithdown Road ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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