Magister Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Nobody is going to blame Robinson for putting out a positive message re performances as per tonight's Chron However we do need to be aware of the first media management module of the UEFA badge course 1) what do you say if you are conceding too many goals? Answer ...I have got them well organised but we are being let down by too many individual errors 2) what do you say if you are not scoring enough goals? Answer ....I can't fault the effort and I have got us creating chances. If we keep getting into position the goals will come and we just need one to go in of somebody's knee or backside Of course what graduates of the course really mean is, my defenders are crap and my forwards could not hit a barn door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Yes agree - I also thought I was reading standard "manager speak" in the Chron tonight - nothing different is ever said. Never mind, we kick on now and I`m sure somebody will have it in their locker to produce a goal from somewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) If he did a Darren Kelly and promised "attractive attacking football" then I'd be concerned by his comments. But he didn't, he's delivering exactly what he promised so far. The big question is whether he can get our forward line firing while keep the defensive solidity. Personally I'm not convinced that he'll be able to but he's earned himself the chance to have a go at it. Edited September 20, 2016 by the_mighty_bosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 he's delivering exactly what he promised so far. "energy and pace" were his initial cornerstones for the squad - so, no, he's not delivered what he promised - yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Consolidating now appears to be the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 "energy and pace" were his initial cornerstones for the squad - so, no, he's not delivered what he promised - yet. Plenty of both in squad, quality less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Plenty of both in squad, quality less so. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) If he did a Darren Kelly and promised "attractive attacking football" then I'd be concerned by his comments. But he didn't, he's delivering exactly what he promised so far. You haven't been listening then. Only 2 or 3 games into the season Robbo was talking about this "brand" of football getting people back to BP. As yet, Robbo has done nothing different to Kelly. I'm not taken by the bull:censored: bingo and optimism built on nothing but fresh air. Neither was I in a state of despair in the belief the World was falling down around us under Kelly. I'm just glad there hasn't been the knives out from 30 seconds into Robbo's tenure & this time a guy rightly gets his chance. Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 "Whats's your reaction to Walsall away Darren?" "Our fixtures?" "We start at Walsall..." "Oh, the fixtures are out today?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 You haven't been listening then. Only 2 or 3 games into the season Robbo was talking about this "brand" of football getting people back to BP. As yet, Robbo has done nothing different to Kelly. I'm not taken by the bull:censored: bingo and optimism built on nothing but fresh air. Neither was I in a state of despair in the belief the World was falling down around us under Kelly. I'm just glad there hasn't been the knives out from 30 seconds into Robbo's tenure & this time a guy rightly gets his chance. Did he say that would be happening instantly though or over time? To be fair to Robinson his plan has always been to build from the back. The most clean sheets in the top 4 divisions suggests he's delivering on that at the moment. He's confident that the goals will follow as that's "the last thing to fall in to place". That's his biggest challenge and he'll be judged on that in time no doubt. When you compare his interviews to Kelly's you can tell the difference between someone who's been coaching for a long time at quite a high level and the self-confidence that brings, and someone who hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 "energy and pace" were his initial cornerstones for the squad - so, no, he's not delivered what he promised - yet. The player whose remit energy and pace were has been desperately poor so far, and so the old 'he's looked good in training' one has been used about Mclaughlin. If we're honest there are very few managers who actually speak the truth these days, and I think we're best off accepting that fact and hoping they're just good at their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Did he say that would be happening instantly though or over time? To be fair to Robinson his plan has always been to build from the back. The most clean sheets in the top 4 divisions suggests he's delivering on that at the moment. He's confident that the goals will follow as that's "the last thing to fall in to place". That's his biggest challenge and he'll be judged on that in time no doubt. When you compare his interviews to Kelly's you can tell the difference between someone who's been coaching for a long time at quite a high level and the self-confidence that brings, and someone who hasn't. Ahhhh...I remember the "Shez...he's never managed before...give him time" And the "Dickov...he's never managed before...give him time" And the "LJ...he's never managed before...give him time" You can't say that about Robbo and use it to beat Kelly with it. Indeed, he needed to learn and needed plenty of time to do it. All this talk from fans about Robbo doing this and doing that is just bull:censored: bingo. This notion that when we score 1 and we will score :censored:loads is based on nothing...we've heard it time and time again. God I hope it's true though. Quite happily enjoy seeing that happen. Robbo will slowly realise he needs to change his outlook and hopefully we will be better for it. It's all very early days and it's going close to how I expected (apart from, I thought we should've at least had 1 league win at home so far.) So I'm not overly concerned at the moment. But the run of games coming up are tougher that what we've faced so far and that could see us in trouble. Coventry was only a good point if we back it up with a home win. But it's funny this topic is about the "management rhetoric school" because a lot of Latics fans are following it up with the "bingo bull:censored: bible". We have no idea which way it will go just yet but signs are slowly pointing to another struggle. A win on Saturday will tell us much more about where we might go this season. Rhetoric on OWTB of mythical forthcoming trouncings won't. Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Ahhhh...I remember the "Shez...he's never managed before...give him time" And the "Dickov...he's never managed before...give him time" And the "LJ...he's never managed before...give him time" You can't say that about Robbo and use it to beat Kelly with it. Indeed, he needed to learn and needed plenty of time to do it. All this talk from fans about Robbo doing this and doing that is just bull:censored: bingo. This notion that when we score 1 and we will score :censored:loads is based on nothing...we've heard it time and time again. God I hope it's true though. Quite happily enjoy seeing that happen. Robbo will slowly realise he needs to change his outlook and hopefully we will be better for it. It's all very early days and it's going close to how I expected (apart from, I thought we should've at least had 1 league win at home so far.) So I'm not overly concerned at the moment. But the run of games coming up are tougher that what we've faced so far and that could see us in trouble. Coventry was only a good point if we back it up with a home win. But it's funny this topic is about the "management rhetoric school" because a lot of Latics fans are following it up with the "bingo bull:censored: bible". We have no idea which way it will go just yet but signs are slowly pointing to another struggle. A win on Saturday will tell us much more about where we might go this season. Rhetoric on OWTB of mythical forthcoming trouncings won't. For what it's worth, I wasn't a fan of sacking Kelly so early, especially without a proper plan in place. But after all the pain getting to this point, I believe we're now in a better place than this time 12 months ago. Robinson's plan was to make us hard to beat. He's achieving this, we've only lost twice and have the most clean sheets in the country - that's something tangible we can look at, assess and be positive about if people want to. I don't think he necessarily does need to change his outlook either. If we start sneaking 1-0 wins, which isn't a stretch to do this from where we are now, then we'll start to climb the table. As far as I've heard/read from him, this is all he's coming out with. No promises of scoring :censored:loads. No bull:censored: bingo, even if some fans do! He does defend his players and performances though, so if that's management-speak then it's something I've never really had a problem with. Much rather any criticism stay behind closed doors. It worked for Fergie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) For what it's worth, I wasn't a fan of sacking Kelly so early, especially without a proper plan in place. But after all the pain getting to this point, I believe we're now in a better place than this time 12 months ago. Robinson's plan was to make us hard to beat. He's achieving this, we've only lost twice and have the most clean sheets in the country - that's something tangible we can look at, assess and be positive about if people want to. I don't think he necessarily does need to change his outlook either. If we start sneaking 1-0 wins, which isn't a stretch to do this from where we are now, then we'll start to climb the table. As far as I've heard/read from him, this is all he's coming out with. No promises of scoring :censored:loads. No bull:censored: bingo, even if some fans do! He does defend his players and performances though, so if that's management-speak then it's something I've never really had a problem with. Much rather any criticism stay behind closed doors. It worked for Fergie. I agree with plenty of that. The point I was reacting to though was the line "If he did a Darren Kelly and promised "attractive attacking football" then I'd be concerned by his comments" He said this after a dour game against Walsall..... http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/robinson-hopes-performances-entice-more-supporters-to-games-3250808.aspx And more of the same followed against Northampton. Fans won't come back with us playing dull football even if they are 1-0 wins. Ronnie Moore got sacked for taking us from near relegation after Talbot to nipping at the playoffs (before an injured Wellens tailed off that season) and got sacked for it. I sometimes think half our fans would be happy with losing 5-4 ala Carlisle but going home "entertained" every week. While Kelly was extremely raw and needing to learn a hell of a lot (while being knifed in the back in all areas), Robbo has had complete support, has experience inside the game and isn't doing any better or worse than Kelly at present IMO. Both are geniuses compared to Dunn tho Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I agree with plenty of that. The point I was reacting to though was the line "If he did a Darren Kelly and promised "attractive attacking football" then I'd be concerned by his comments" He said this after a dour game against Walsall..... http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/robinson-hopes-performances-entice-more-supporters-to-games-3250808.aspx And more of the same followed against Northampton. Fans won't come back with us playing dull football even if they are 1-0 wins. Ronnie Moore got sacked for as much. While Kelly was extremely raw and needing to learn a hell of a lot (while being knifed in the back in all areas), Robbo has had complete support, has experience inside the game and isn't doing any better or worse than Kelly at present IMO. Both are geniuses compared to Dunn tho He didn't promise anything other than being competitive and showing pride and passion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) He didn't promise anything other than being competitive and showing pride and passion... There was another quote about his brand of football. It might have been on GMR and I thought it was in written print. Either way...fans won't just turn up because we are playing with pride and passion or churning out competitive 0-0 or 1-0 wins. Start knocking in a few 3 or 4-0 wins and we might. How I miss those days when we were :censored: but you knew a Chesterfield, a Gillingham or a Colchester were coming to BP to get rolled over. Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Can't claim Kelly didn't get time and then say opposite about Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I agree with plenty of that. The point I was reacting to though was the line "If he did a Darren Kelly and promised "attractive attacking football" then I'd be concerned by his comments" He said this after a dour game against Walsall..... http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/robinson-hopes-performances-entice-more-supporters-to-games-3250808.aspx And more of the same followed against Northampton. Fans won't come back with us playing dull football even if they are 1-0 wins. Ronnie Moore got sacked for as much. While Kelly was extremely raw and needing to learn a hell of a lot (while being knifed in the back in all areas), Robbo has had complete support, has experience inside the game and isn't doing any better or worse than Kelly at present IMO. Both are geniuses compared to Dunn tho Darren Kelly is learning at the level he should be, he's already lost twice to Glossop North End this season, let that sink in for a second. Your defence of him is looking slightly bizzare. In terms of getting the fans back well people want to see (in this order) 1. Results (mainly wins) 2. Entertainment After several years of going nowhere I think we would all take getting into the play offs of the back of plenty of 1 goal wins. If we won 4-3 one week lost 3-2 the next week and then drew 2-2 the next while we would like the initial "entertainment" Eventually we would just get more and more pissed off with conceding stupid goals. Progress is what matters In terms of the topic of management rhetoric well its best to say a lot without saying anything, at all keep the rhetoric to quotes to the press. The place for honesty is the dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Can't claim Kelly didn't get time and then say opposite about Dunn. Kelly got 1 month of the season. Dunn got 4 months and to bring about 10 of his own players. Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I'd be hesitant to use the word 'let down' so early but I'd say that Robinson probably expected more of Flynn and Mckay, especially the latter, who I reckon was thought to have been one of the league's best strikers when signed. That we're compact at the back doesn't mean we've sacrificed that over attack - I'm not even sure we play much more defensively than some other teams I've seen so far. He'll have been learning about his side in the same way we have, and it's clear that with a few changes in recent weeks he's spotted a few flaws in his tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Darren Kelly is learning at the level he should be, he's already lost twice to Glossop North End this season, let that sink in for a second. Your defence of him is looking slightly bizzare. In terms of getting the fans back well people want to see (in this order) 1. Results (mainly wins) 2. Entertainment After several years of going nowhere I think we would all take getting into the play offs of the back of plenty of 1 goal wins. If we won 4-3 one week lost 3-2 the next week and then drew 2-2 the next while we would like the initial "entertainment" Eventually we would just get more and more pissed off with conceding stupid goals. Progress is what matters In terms of the topic of management rhetoric well its best to say a lot without saying anything, at all keep the rhetoric to quotes to the press. The place for honesty is the dressing room. Tbh, I'm not that interested in defending Kelly. It's other people that force the subject down that road as they love the topic of beating Kelly which is resorted to when I point out Robbo has done nothing better than him so far, No matter how folk want to dress it up. I agree with the rest of your post as I'm a results person. I'd happily take dour 1-0 wins but a lot won't. History shows that. And they're not forthcoming so far but as I keep saying, it's early days and the season can pan out in 100 ways as it stands. Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 "Whats's your reaction to Walsall away Darren?" "Our fixtures?" "We start at Walsall..." "Oh, the fixtures are out today?" Harry Dowd the great ex Latics keeper often didnt know who we played until he arrived at the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 It's other people that force the subject down that road as they love the topic of beating Kelly which is resorted to when I point out Robbo has done nothing better than him so far, No matter how folk want to dress it up. Have to disagree with this point as, although points won are similar, I think you can tangibly show where he's doing better than Kelly... 1. a personal history of coaching at a high level 2. a balanced squad 3. Peter Clarke 4. Delivering on a game plan (clean sheet record) You could say that Robinson has received better backing, but another way of looking at that is he's commanded that backing, something Kelly didn't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 If Kelly had been able to sign a Peter Clarke where would last season's team be fairing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Have to disagree with this point as, although points won are similar, I think you can tangibly show where he's doing better than Kelly... 1. a personal history of coaching at a high level 2. a balanced squad 3. Peter Clarke 4. Delivering on a game plan (clean sheet record) You could say that Robinson has received better backing, but another way of looking at that is he's commanded that backing, something Kelly didn't do. Or alternatively... 1. a personal history of coaching at a high level - He came to BP with this. That isn't evidence of him performing better than Kelly 2. a balanced squad - Something Kelly never had through no fault of his own (losing his striker and plan A after game 1) so only adds to the thought that Robbo should be performing better 3. Peter Clarke - Landed in our lap and club supported Robbo. Club blocked DK getting Armstrong who went to Cov and stuck in 19 goals. 4. Delivering on a game plan (clean sheet record) - WOW..really? That's the game plan? He's deliver half a plan in some games. And this line that a manager somehow, a month into his stay, doesn't deserve backing is embarrassing to be honest. I'll repeat...Robbo isn't doing any better than Kelly. No matter how it's dressed up. No matter how much people want to keep saying Kelly was this, Kelly was that, Kelly has done this or not done that since.... Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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