Latics_Fanatic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Or alternatively... 1. a personal history of coaching at a high level - He came to BP with this. That isn't evidence of him performing better than Kelly 2. a balanced squad - Something Kelly never had through no fault of his own (losing his striker and plan A after game 1) so only adds to the thought that Robbo should be performing better 3. Peter Clarke - Landed in our lap and club supported Robbo. Club blocked DK getting Armstrong who went to Cov and stuck in 19 goals. 4. Delivering on a game plan (clean sheet record) - WOW..really? That's the game plan? He's deliver half a plan in some games. And this line that a manager somehow, a month into his stay, doesn't deserve backing is embarrassing to be honest. I'll repeat...Robbo isn't doing any better than Kelly. No matter how it's dressed up. No matter how much people want to keep saying Kelly was this, Kelly was that, Kelly has done this or not done that since.... Still calling bollocks on DK's claim that he could have had Armstrong. Kelly was wank. Robbo is doing alright, nothing special so far. Naturally though, I feel we're in better hands a year on. Edited September 21, 2016 by Latics_Fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Or alternatively... 1. a personal history of coaching at a high level - He came to BP with this. That isn't evidence of him performing better than Kelly 2. a balanced squad - Something Kelly never had through no fault of his own (losing his striker and plan A after game 1) so only adds to the thought that Robbo should be performing better 3. Peter Clarke - Landed in our lap and club supported Robbo. Club blocked DK getting Armstrong who went to Cov and stuck in 19 goals. 4. Delivering on a game plan (clean sheet record) - WOW..really? That's the game plan? He's deliver half a plan in some games. And this line that a manager somehow, a month into his stay, doesn't deserve backing is embarrassing to be honest. I'll repeat...Robbo isn't doing any better than Kelly. No matter how it's dressed up. No matter how much people want to keep saying Kelly was this, Kelly was that, Kelly has done this or not done that since.... We disagree, fine. But I didn't say Kelly didn't deserve backing, I suggested that maybe Robinson (his personality, standing in game, coaching record, contacts) has commanded it. There's a difference. There's also the responsibility of the manager to convince the right players to sign for us, especially on our budget. How much has Cassidy's 2 year deal cost us? Point 4... his game plan has been to make us hard to beat and we have the most clean sheets in the country, that's a fact so from that you can argue that the aim of making us hard to beat is working. I wasn't saying that his game plan was to get 46 clean sheets. I'm sceptical about the Armstrong story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Kelly got 1 month of the season. Dunn got 4 months and to bring about 10 of his own players. Kelly 4 May - 12 September Dunn 13 Sep - 12 January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Kelly 4 May - 12 September Dunn 13 Sep - 12 January So pretty much backing up what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 And this line that a manager somehow, a month into his stay, doesn't deserve backing is embarrassing to be honest. He was actually here for 5 months and that was obviously long enough for the board to realise that they had dropped one almighty bollock. We aren't privvy to everything that goes on behind the scenes at the club but to back a manager with the club's budget knowing full well he wasn't up to the task would have been plain stupid. We had the nucleus of a decent side when Kelly came in whereas Robbo inherited an almost empty dressing room. In putting a new squad together in a few short weeks he's done a tremendous job and to compare their results at this stage is pretty irrelevant. If Robbo had been given the luxury of a full close season to build and prepare his squad I'm quite sure one or two of these players wouldn't have been considered, we were desperate for players and will probably be the reason for several short term deals that have been agreed. I think it's going to be around November time before we see what this squad and manager are capable of and it would be totally unrealistic to judge them any earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 So pretty much backing up what he said. Bull:censored: bingo will tell it is harder to take over a team mid season I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) We disagree, fine. But I didn't say Kelly didn't deserve backing, I suggested that maybe Robinson (his personality, standing in game, coaching record, contacts) has commanded it. There's a difference. There's also the responsibility of the manager to convince the right players to sign for us, especially on our budget. How much has Cassidy's 2 year deal cost us? Point 4... his game plan has been to make us hard to beat and we have the most clean sheets in the country, that's a fact so from that you can argue that the aim of making us hard to beat is working. I wasn't saying that his game plan was to get 46 clean sheets. I'm sceptical about the Armstrong story. I'm sceptical about the things that the club put out about Kelly. Going unbeaten in the first 5 games didn't suggest everything was as sour with the players as was made out. But fans and the powers at be had decided to go full tilt on the guy. Anyway....old news. Edited September 21, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I'm sceptical about the things that the club put out about Kelly. Going unbeaten in the first 5 games didn't suggest everything was as sour with the players as was made out. But fans and the powers at be had decided to go full tilt on the guy. Anyway....old news. Three of those five teams ended up finishing below us. Anyone who went to Colchester will tell you it was as bad as anything seen all season and the Fleetwood win was a fluke. But like you say, old news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) BB80 the point where you destroy your argument for me is by saying about Kelly's plan A striker getting injured in first game - that striker was :censored:ing Jake Cassidy !! Anyone who was basically trying to build his team around that joke excuse of a striker was clearly totally inept Edited September 22, 2016 by simplythemostimportantkick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 BB80 the point where you destroy your argument for me is by saying about Kelly's plan A striker getting injured in first game - that striker was ducking Jake Cassidy !! Anyone who was basically trying to build his team around that joke excuse of a striker was clearly totally inept Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Hindsight is a wonderful thing. A pretty piss poor record (tranmere aside) is not to be considered then ? Kelly was talking as if we had some kind of superstar on our hands. Come on BB this guy was a :censored:ing con man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) A pretty piss poor record (tranmere aside) is not to be considered then ? Kelly was talking as if we had some kind of superstar on our hands. Come on BB this guy was a :censored:ing con man You can talk in hindsight all you want. Why do you chose to "Tranmere aside"? Because it suits? Most of us thought his record at Tranmere meant he was coming here with a good level of goal scoring experience at this level. Robbo talks like Erwin is some kind of superstar. Grounds for calling him a con man too if he carries on disappointing? You can ignore the parallels if you want but I'm bored with being forced into defending Kelly...the subject is about Robbo and the same point stands. He's done no better or worse than Kelly so far. Edited September 22, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Holden did no worse than Kelly, was you calling for him to stay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Can't be :censored:ed either but let's have a look who has a better career. I know which my money will be on ! Which non league outfit is the dazzler ballsing up at the minute ? Robbo for me is basically finishing his pre season , much worse starting circumstances then the youth coach confidence trickster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) Holden did no worse than Kelly, was you calling for him to stay? Blimey...shall we compare every manager in our history? I thought Holden was a scapegoat who got the job landed on him after LJ's flit, had no scope to bring anyone in and had lots to learn too. Wouldn't have been upset at seeing him given a clean slate the following season and a fair go at it. I'm not into sacking managers willy-nilly. Especially after 7 games. Edited September 22, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 You can talk in hindsight all you want. Why do you chose to "Tranmere aside"? Because it suits? Most of us thought his record at Tranmere meant he was coming here with a good level of goal scoring experience at this level. Robbo talks like Erwin is some kind of superstar. Grounds for calling him a con man too if he carries on disappointing? You can ignore the parallels if you want but I'm bored with being forced into defending Kelly...the subject is about Robbo and the same point stands. He's done no better or worse than Kelly so far. The difference between Erwin and Cassidy is absolutely enormous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) The difference between Erwin and Cassidy is absolutely enormous Indeed. Cassidy once scored 19 goals in a season at this level. Let's not make Erwin out to be something he isn't yet. A work in progress. Nothing more as yet. Edited September 22, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I couldn't really defend ant manager who is so utterly reliant on one player, whoever it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 You can talk in hindsight all you want. Why do you chose to "Tranmere aside"? Because it suits? Most of us thought his record at Tranmere meant he was coming here with a good level of goal scoring experience at this level. Robbo talks like Erwin is some kind of superstar. Grounds for calling him a con man too if he carries on disappointing? You can ignore the parallels if you want but I'm bored with being forced into defending Kelly...the subject is about Robbo and the same point stands. He's done no better or worse than Kelly so far. Even though I think there are a lot of indicators that Robinson is going to be better than Kelly, ultimately I agree that (as it stands) there isn't really a lot tangible that separates the two so far. If Robinson goes on a similar run to Dunn between now and Christmas then he'll be a unquestionable failure and should be sacked before it's too late. I believe that won't happen though as Robinson seems to be getting our situation more and more under control and by the Peterborough game last year Kelly, while being far from totally at fault, was rapidly losing control. So much of it is circumstance. I believe Kelly got dealt a better hand at the start (mainly because Robinson got dealt no hand at all!) but he was caught in the middle of our most toxic year in living memory. Because Robinson had a harder task to begin with expectations have been easier to manage and it actually feels like we're making steady progress, albeit gradual. Like you said earlier, Saturday is an important game and one that is easily winnable if Robinson and co. do their homework. It could be a big indicator of the medium term direction we're heading in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 As an aside, I'm interested by the comparison between LJ and SR. I think SR has started his first full season in a way that is much more favourable to LJ as while the football was more entertaining it was also very naive. SR has made a much more pragmatic start. My feeling from what I've seen so far is that while SR's pragmatism will stay, LJ has more tactical strings to his bow (even if they didn't all pay off here) and SR won't be able to change things as easily as him. Would love to be proven wrong of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I couldn't really defend ant manager who is so utterly reliant on one player, whoever it is Doesn't help when you're not being allowed to sign players and The Policeman and Mr Gee are signing them. Anyhow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Even though I think there are a lot of indicators that Robinson is going to be better than Kelly, ultimately I agree that (as it stands) there isn't really a lot tangible that separates the two so far. If Robinson goes on a similar run to Dunn between now and Christmas then he'll be a unquestionable failure and should be sacked before it's too late. I believe that won't happen though as Robinson seems to be getting our situation more and more under control and by the Peterborough game last year Kelly, while being far from totally at fault, was rapidly losing control. So much of it is circumstance. I believe Kelly got dealt a better hand at the start (mainly because Robinson got dealt no hand at all!) but he was caught in the middle of our most toxic year in living memory. Because Robinson had a harder task to begin with expectations have been easier to manage and it actually feels like we're making steady progress, albeit gradual. Like you said earlier, Saturday is an important game and one that is easily winnable if Robinson and co. do their homework. It could be a big indicator of the medium term direction we're heading in. As you say, a lot of it is circumstancial and it's never black and white. And it will always be portrayed how the club want it to be with "leaked" tit bits that fuel the flames. As long as the progress with Robbo is gradual that's all that can be expected at present. He's got a bloody tough job as has anybody while the current regime exists. Hence why most managers often have my support beyond most others breaking point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Indeed. Cassidy once scored 19 goals in a season at this level. Let's not make Erwin out to be something he isn't yet. A work in progress. Nothing more as yet. You said 'if he carries on disappointing', when he's actually been our brightest attacking light. Erwin has already had more good games than Cassidy did and I'd say has truly been unlucky on the pitch. I'd say that we could already consider Erwin a better signing than Cassidy ever was, and I attribute that to the manager knowing his quality and managing to acquire a decent player at this level. Cassidy hadn't scored in 25 prior to joining, most of that in League 2, it's worth remembering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 The players are currently playing for Robinson. The commitment is there. When Kelly went it had gone. Similar with Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 You said 'if he carries on disappointing', when he's actually been our brightest attacking light. Erwin has already had more good games than Cassidy did and I'd say has truly been unlucky on the pitch. I'd say that we could already consider Erwin a better signing than Cassidy ever was, and I attribute that to the manager knowing his quality and managing to acquire a decent player at this level. Cassidy hadn't scored in 25 prior to joining, most of that in League 2, it's worth remembering. Yes, yes...I keep hearing this about Erwin. Tends to make me scratch my head. Puts the effort in...but that is enough for most fans. Again, it's early doors but he's like Croft. No end product. Plenty of time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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