kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, Magister said: You haven't said anything I've said as much as anyone else then.. shall I make it easier for you. I clearly said the following. Is a WUP usually used as a big stick to force payment? Is it fraudulent to take funds when you know you can't fulfil an order? Is it the trusts duty to act if they feel that such fraudulent activity is taking place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, kowenicki said: A WUP can be the first step toward liquidation. Far more commonly, as you surely well know, it's a very big stick to make a company cough up. Look, If you genuinely believe what you say then the company would be trading illegally and you should report it. If the company is taking monies in full knowledge of impending liquidation and is therefore never going to be able to fulfil the order then that is fraudulent. I keep asking. Am I wrong in anything I say here? You are very naive. I have tried point 2 and was assured that my query would be dealt with but under data protection rules they could not tell me the result. The financial world has rules and regulations but also professionals who find alternative arrangements. Jorvik is right to be concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, jorvik_latic said: I didn't say that there is impending liquidation, just that a process has started. I'm worried about finances, you're not. Let's leave it there. Which we knew. I'm permanently conscious of our finances and their perilous state, as is every Latics fan. Have been for over 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, ChaddySmoker said: You are very naive. I have tried point 2 and was assured that my query would be dealt with but under data protection rules they could not tell me the result. The financial world has rules and regulations but also professionals who find alternative arrangements. Jorvik is right to be concerned Very naive. I am a director in the financial world with a business turning over more than Latics does. Fair enough. You know best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Is a WUP usually used as a big stick to force payment? Yes. An expensive, very last resort, after all other options have been exhausted, big stick. It costs at least £2k to raise it so isn't used frivolously. 1 minute ago, kowenicki said: Which we knew. We didn't. We've been told there's nothing to worry about, 'the HMRC will issue a formal retraction'. They haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Very naive. I am a director in the financial world with a business turning over more than Latics does. Fair enough. You know best. 'in the financial world' really mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, kowenicki said: I've said as much as anyone else then.. shall I make it easier for you. I clearly said the following. Is a WUP usually used as a big stick to force payment? Is it fraudulent to take funds when you know you can't fulfil an order? Is it the trusts duty to act if they feel that such fraudulent activity is taking place? Exactly, you have said nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, ChaddySmoker said: 'in the financial world' really mate! What? Yes really. I'm not disclosing all on a forum so some numpty (not you) can get all big and clever. Anyhow. You stated you reported it but was told no result would be forthcoming due to data protection. who did you report it to and when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said: Yes. An expensive, very last resort, after all other options have been exhausted, big stick. It costs at least £2k to raise it so isn't used frivolously. We didn't. We've been told there's nothing to worry about, 'the HMRC will issue a formal retraction'. They haven't. 2k is very expensive? Ok then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Just now, kowenicki said: 2k is very expensive? Ok then. 10% of what's owed is expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Taking season ticket monies for next season if WUP still proceeding would be very serious. What happens after a petition advertisement?The bank will usually find out and freeze the company’s bank account to stop any sale of assets or ‘wrongdoing’ by the directors. This can be hugely detrimental to the business and can stop it trading. The official receiver or appointed liquidator will investigate the director’s activities and actions once the Court has ordered a WUP. They will look to see if there has been any fraudulent activity or ‘wrongful trading.’ The directors may be personally liable for debt if it’s proved they made the creditors’ position worse after it became insolvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, pk200 said: Phill .....is this a cryptic message ....who is Will? Shhhhh... you are on a need to know basis...Im sure he won't mind Will is his true name Jorvik_latic is his posted name on here. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, kowenicki said: The official receiver or appointed liquidator will investigate the director’s activities and actions once the Court has ordered a WUP. They will look to see if there has been any fraudulent activity or ‘wrongful trading.’ The directors may be personally liable for debt if it’s proved they made the creditors’ position worse after it became insolvent. You've mis-quoted there. That's what happens when a court orders winding up, not issues a WUP. Wrongful trading is where an insolvent company has continued to trade in a way which worsens the position of the creditors that any reasonable director would not have allowed. Not taking season ticket monies would be wrongful trading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 People are getting the wrong end of my stick here. Ooer. I'm not excusing the club from acting properly or honestly. If the club is acting dishonestly or in an underhand way then that is awful, unacceptable and they should be rebuked publicly and noisily. If, however, there is zero proof then people of trust should not be speculating or rumour mongering. That is not helpful and not healthy for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, jorvik_latic said: You've mis-quoted there. That's what happens when a court orders winding up, not issues a WUP. Wrongful trading is where an insolvent company has continued to trade in a way which worsens the position of the creditors that any reasonable director would not have allowed. Not taking season ticket monies would be wrongful trading. Which it says in the quote, However, if after advertisement of the petition directors have acted 'wrongly' prior to petition being enforced then it would come out at enforcement. Your last paragraph is a bit silly. Not taking season ticket sales when the season could never start would be a correct action and wouldn't worsen creditors position as they would have to refund them anyway. No, taking them could actually be fraudulent trading which, again as you will no doubt know, is far worse (harder to prove but far worse). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Which it says in the quote, However, if after advertisement of the petition directors have acted 'wrongly' prior to petition being enforced then it would come out at enforcement. Your last paragraph is a bit silly. Not taking season ticket sales when the season could never start would be a correct action and wouldn't worsen creditors position as they would have to refund them anyway. No, taking them could actually be fraudulent trading which, again as you will no doubt know, is far worse (harder to prove but far worse). You're creating a straw man, nobody has suggested that the directors hope or plan for the club to go under. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, leeslover said: You're creating a straw man, nobody has suggested that the directors hope or plan for the club to go under. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Aren't they? I suggest you read the post earlier referring to Chris Moore. That is EXACTLY what is being inferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Aren't they? I suggest you read the post earlier referring to Chris Moore. That is EXACTLY what is being inferred. I'm not convinced I will change your mind so I'm going to go and put tea on. Great if you aren't worried but I still am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Aren't they? I suggest you read the post earlier referring to Chris Moore. That is EXACTLY what is being inferred. How does drawing parallels to a previous situation infer that the directors want the club to go under? You've lost it now and are putting libellous words in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Which it says in the quote, No it doesn't. You said once the court orders a winding up petition. The quote relates to when the court orders a winding up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 42 minutes ago, kowenicki said: People are getting the wrong end of my stick here. Ooer. I'm not excusing the club from acting properly or honestly. If the club is acting dishonestly or in an underhand way then that is awful, unacceptable and they should be rebuked publicly and noisily. If, however, there is zero proof then people of trust should not be speculating or rumour mongering. That is not helpful and not healthy for the future. I'm not sure the Trust would be prepared to break ranks with the club without giving it some serious thought about any potential repercussions. It is concerning right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pk200 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, underdog said: Shhhhh... you are on a need to know basis...Im sure he won't mind Will is his true name Jorvik_latic is his posted name on here. hope this helps Thanks for the info.....have known Phill for over 30 years and shared our support of Latics for many of them but never heard him talk of "Will" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 3 hours ago, kowenicki said: Very naive. I am a director in the financial world with a business turning over more than Latics does. Fair enough. You know best. And does that business borrow money from shady Scouse companies to get by on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: And does that business borrow money from shady Scouse companies to get by on? Cash rich pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Cash rich pal. Wanna buy a football club it's up for sale comes with a fee chairman? No? well I tried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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