kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 hour ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: Britain's economic growth has just slipped to the bottom of the G7 so don't expect that to last. As predicted by everyone that isn't a politician. We had the best performance in 2016 and this was predicted by every major commentator/analyst to slip in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, kowenicki said: As predicted by everyone that isn't a politician. We had the best performance in 2016 and this was predicted by every major commentator/analyst to slip in 2017. And? I was just pointing out that the trend he is observing isn't likely to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, joe_lead said: ...... because the basis of your argument seems to be that we shouldn't complain about increasingly more working people struggling to get by as it was worse for our parents and grand parents. I disagree that more working people are. The idea that they are is central to Labour's & your politics though. Dependant on misery, real or otherwise... In real life I see the opposite to the stats you posted.... That doesn't mean I dispute that there are people out there struggling, of course there are - and I hope whichever government gets in can improve things for them. Keeping the vast majority of the population productive, optimistic & spending money will offer the greatest chance of that happening, in my opinion. Edited June 2, 2017 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 hour ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: What are corporation tax receipts as a proportion of all receipts? Or a proportion of GDP? Just a thought. I wouldn't want to set fire to your straw man but... Your glorious leader wants to increase it which, put simplistically, might well result in the reverse happening. Which will mean he then has to go against his pledge not to fuck over low earners.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View Of Golden Gate Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Just now, HarryBosch said: Your glorious leader wants to increase it which, put simplistically, might well result in the reverse happening. Which will mean he then has to go against his pledge not to fuck over low earners.... Whereas yours openly fucks over/dislikes over low earners, disabled, elderly, unemployed, foxes, elephants, police officers, doctors, nurses, anyone who wishes to ask her a question, her own colleagues, female prisoners, human right activists, environmentalists, those who oppose the selling of arms to terrorists, students, those who need social care, the self employed, the homeless, the sick, the destitute, the NHS, live debates (in fact any debates), following Parliamentary procedure, expenses What she protects/likes: high earners, big corporations, Phillip Hammond, fox hunters, poachers, her husband (because he takes the bins out like a man), her husband's bank account, power suits, despots, Trump, Saudi Arabia, Assad, Rupert Murdoch, the Daily Mail, Maggie Thatcher, her husband's bank account (again), her job, her old job, making cuts, slogans, her own voice, her own face. Anything I miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 36 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: And? I was just pointing out that the trend he is observing isn't likely to continue. Neither might this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Whereas yours I don't have one, it's 2017.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Whereas yours openly fucks over/dislikes over low earners, disabled, elderly, unemployed, foxes, elephants, police officers, doctors, nurses, anyone who wishes to ask her a question, her own colleagues, female prisoners, human right activists, environmentalists, those who oppose the selling of arms to terrorists, students, those who need social care, the self employed, the homeless, the sick, the destitute, the NHS, live debates (in fact any debates), following Parliamentary procedure, expenses What she protects/likes: high earners, big corporations, Phillip Hammond, fox hunters, poachers, her husband (because he takes the bins out like a man), her husband's bank account, power suits, despots, Trump, Saudi Arabia, Assad, Rupert Murdoch, the Daily Mail, Maggie Thatcher, her husband's bank account (again), her job, her old job, making cuts, slogans, her own voice, her own face. Anything I miss? No point in discussing anything with anyone like you. You'd vote for a slug if it had a red rosette on it. I'm still curious to know peoples backgrounds if they are prepared to share... which part of the public sector do you work for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Your glorious leader wants to increase it which, put simplistically, might well result in the reverse happening. Which will mean he then has to go against his pledge not to fuck over low earners.... Okay. *takes out matches and petrol* Corporation tax receipts tend to be lower during recessions. (How am I doing?) They tend to be higher during periods of economic growth. (Still with me?) There's your correlation. (How was that?) Why would HMRC publish data side by side like that when the two variables have no causal relationship? I have no idea. Pressure from Laffer curve idiots is my first guess, but it might also be to do with HMRC's own reputation of not collecting as much in tax from corporations as they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 The EU wants to forge closer links with China in light of Trump actions. Fucking hell. Human rights no longer an issue then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 minute ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: Okay. *takes out matches and petrol* Corporation tax receipts tend to be lower during recessions. (How am I doing?) They tend to be higher during periods of economic growth. (Still with me?) There's your correlation. (How was that?) Why would HMRC publish data side by side like that when the two variables have no causal relationship? I have no idea. Pressure from Laffer curve idiots is my first guess, but it might also be to do with HMRC's own reputation of not collecting as much in tax from corporations as they should. So you are saying Labour is correct. We will definitely see a rise in corp tax revenues that is directly proportionate to the rise in the rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 minute ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: Okay. *takes out matches and petrol* Corporation tax receipts tend to be lower during recessions. (How am I doing?) They tend to be higher during periods of economic growth. (Still with me?) There's your correlation. (How was that?) Why would HMRC publish data side by side like that when the two variables have no causal relationship? I have no idea. Pressure from Laffer curve idiots is my first guess, but it might also be to do with HMRC's own reputation of not collecting as much in tax from corporations as they should. Could anybody produce any single stat that you wouldn't spin in a similar fashion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Could anybody produce any single stat that you wouldn't spin in a similar fashion? No. I've asked him a simple question. Will a rise in corp tax generate an equivalent rise in revenue? Labour says it definitely will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View Of Golden Gate Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, kowenicki said: No point in discussing anything with anyone like you. You'd vote for a slug if it had a red rosette on it. I'm still curious to know peoples backgrounds if they are prepared to share... which part of the public sector do you work for? Never worked in the public sector, worked in a variety of industries. I do not feel the need to brag about my earnings, or achievements because and no disrespect to anyone here but I do not need approval and applause from an online community. 10 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Could anybody produce any single stat that you wouldn't spin in a similar fashion? Isn't this largely the issue? Aren't all statistics open to spinning? Doesn't this open up to a wider issue of why people do not vote, as there are so few facts, and the facts that are there are ignored unless they suit the agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Never worked in the public sector, worked in a variety of industries. I do not feel the need to brag about my earnings, or achievements because and no disrespect to anyone here but I do not need approval and applause from an online community. Isn't this largely the issue? Aren't all statistics open to spinning? Doesn't this open up to a wider issue of why people do not vote, as there are so few facts, and the facts that are there are ignored unless they suit the agenda. Who is asking you to brag. I'm just wondering what shapes your polarised and aggressive view. I find it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Edit Edited April 17, 2018 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Who is asking you to brag. I'm just wondering what shapes your polarised and aggressive view. I find it interesting. I'd have a wild guess at social injustice if I had to. It's why the left are perceived as shouty and noisy, they tend to believe passionately in their cause while the other side tend to be slightly ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Never worked in the public sector, worked in a variety of industries. I do not feel the need to brag about my earnings, or achievements because and no disrespect to anyone here but I do not need approval and applause from an online community. Isn't this largely the issue? Aren't all statistics open to spinning? Doesn't this open up to a wider issue of why people do not vote, as there are so few facts, and the facts that are there are ignored unless they suit the agenda. I'd say there are too many facts. Not all of them actual facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I'd say there are too many facts. Not all of them actual facts. Fake news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: I'd have a wild guess at social injustice if I had to. It's why the left are perceived as shouty and noisy, they tend to believe passionately in their cause while the other side tend to be slightly ashamed. that's just rubbish isn't it. an over simplified generalisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 anyone checking that table I just posted. is it wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 so according to that table... 40 hours on minimum wage in 2010 under Labour = £11,162 after tax 40 hours in 2017 on minimum wage = £14,780 after tax NI would come off both too obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Just now, kowenicki said: anyone checking that table I just posted. is it wrong? I can't see the sources at the bottom, white on a green background and the size of fucking nonsense - plus my eyes are shagged. One thing I do know is that things like that graph are created for a purpose, and it often omits data that may paint a very different picture. Not saying that one does 'cos I can't fucken read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, kowenicki said: that's just rubbish isn't it. an over simplified generalisation. Over simplified generalisation or rubbish. Make you're mind up there's a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Graphy posty thingy I'm shocked at how small the police budget is in comparion to the NHS budget. Edit: not that I want us to be like America! Edited June 2, 2017 by blueatheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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