Andy b Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Yes and every other club is receiving these funds aren't they so you can't really count that. These funds have no impact on our competitiveness in the market therefore. Hence in real terms and, critically, relative to our rivals our income has reduced. Having lost 30 percent of our regular fans in 13 years it is inconceivable that income has done anything other than fall. How we are still in league 1 is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flemboy Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Can anyone remind me of how many others offered to save us at the time TTA's came to save us and their names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 45 minutes ago, Flemboy said: Can anyone remind me of how many others offered to save us at the time TTA's came to save us and their names? There were a few interested parties, as well as some cranks. I could probably dig out some of the details, but I really can't be arsed. They're not knights in shining armour, they're businessmen. Pretty successful businessmen, pretty average/poor custodians of a football club it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 This club would have survived without TTA coming in, just like virtually every other club in that situation since has done. We often hear about clubs apparently being fucked. Most regroup, get their shit together and return after a few years in the doldrums. For that reason I cannot simply accept that the suggestion that we wouldn't have had a club without TTA and I won't put them on a pedastall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flemboy Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Never said anything about knights in shining armour or putting tgem on a pedestall.Simply want to know what were the alternatives at the time TTAs took over the reins.Obviously they are business men and want a return but we now have a new stand,,a decent ground,a decent manager who will do his best for us next season and hopefully win back some of our lost fans.and things could have been worse.I feel we should not dismiss Corneys efforts out of hand.The grass is always greener on the other side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 All very true and agree we shouldn't dismiss him but we had everything you outlined this time last year. The summer was hugely damaging in terms of fans faith in sc for me. Let's see what happens next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Flemboy said: Never said anything about knights in shining armour or putting tgem on a pedestall.Simply want to know what were the alternatives at the time TTAs took over the reins.Obviously they are business men and want a return but we now have a new stand,,a decent ground,a decent manager who will do his best for us next season and hopefully win back some of our lost fans.and things could have been worse.I feel we should not dismiss Corneys efforts out of hand.The grass is always greener on the other side? An unfinished stand in a decent ground which we do not own and are in arrears for the rent. The grass is greener under Shez-as it was last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroyboy Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Andy b said: All very true and agree we shouldn't dismiss him but we had everything you outlined this time last year. The summer was hugely damaging in terms of fans faith in sc for me. Let's see what happens next. As I have written before it is my view last seasons cash flow and season ticket offer was a disaster of seismic proportions. Fans were invited to buy full price season tickets when we appeared down and out, on the unlikelihood of us stringing a few wins together for cash back. Relegation seemed more likely. No figures were ever published on the take-up and in my view only the brave and diehards took it up. History tells us it cost the club around 40% cash-back and an even deeper financial crisis for the club. I certainly don't put Corney on a pedestal, Tom, Dick or Harry would do if they were keeping our club afloat. But there is no Tom,Dick and Harry and that's the rub. The best way I can put it is: I have always said I would never fly in an helicopter unless it was pulling me off a sinking ship. At the moment Corney is flying the helicopter and I don't fancy my chances alone on the tug boat Oldham Athletic. I spent two thirds of my working life in business and I can't identify a more booby trapped scenario for creating a successful product than a professional football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 09/05/2017 at 9:07 AM, mikeroyboy said: As I have written before it is my view last seasons cash flow and season ticket offer was a disaster of seismic proportions. Fans were invited to buy full price season tickets when we appeared down and out, on the unlikelihood of us stringing a few wins together for cash back. Relegation seemed more likely. No figures were ever published on the take-up and in my view only the brave and diehards took it up. History tells us it cost the club around 40% cash-back and an even deeper financial crisis for the club. I certainly don't put Corney on a pedestal, Tom, Dick or Harry would do if they were keeping our club afloat. But there is no Tom,Dick and Harry and that's the rub. The best way I can put it is: I have always said I would never fly in an helicopter unless it was pulling me off a sinking ship. At the moment Corney is flying the helicopter and I don't fancy my chances alone on the tug boat Oldham Athletic. I spent two thirds of my working life in business and I can't identify a more booby trapped scenario for creating a successful product than a professional football club. Isn't it common knowledge now that the club insured themselves against that ST promotion? So they will have had a pay out to cover the losses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythemostimportantkick Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Blue_Guru said: Isn't it common knowledge now that the club insured themselves against that ST promotion? So they will have had a pay out to cover the losses? I don't know if that's true or not but just say it a few more times on here and it will be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroyboy Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Blue_Guru said: Isn't it common knowledge now that the club insured themselves against that ST promotion? So they will have had a pay out to cover the losses? You fall short of saying it 'is' common knowledge but ask me if know. Unfortunately I didn't know, I must have missed the club statement on that one and apologise. There must have been some other undisclosed financial catastrophe that led to Sheridan leaving, contracted players worth anything leaving and virtually no players brought in until well into pre-season training. Maybe I missed that one as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 (edited) On 2017-5-12 at 5:10 PM, Blue_Guru said: Isn't it common knowledge now that the club insured themselves against that ST promotion? So they will have had a pay out to cover the losses? An insurance policy against us winning those games would effectively be the club betting on the results. I would be amazed if that was allowed. Why don't we just take out an insurance policy against being relegated? Edited May 14, 2017 by Latics and England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 29 minutes ago, Latics and England said: An insurance policy against us winning those games would effectively be the club betting on the results. I would be amazed if that was allowed. Why don't we just take out an insurance policy against being relegated? Or if you have a different mindset like they did under Joe Royle put all the bonus monies on the team going up with the bookies, not sure it's allowed now but the club received an handsome payment when they won the old second division under Royle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) On 14/05/2017 at 10:48 AM, Latics and England said: An insurance policy against us winning those games would effectively be the club betting on the results. I would be amazed if that was allowed. Why don't we just take out an insurance policy against being relegated? Insurance is corporate gambling, it's insuring against a worst case scenario from a promotion. It's common practice in big FMCG's and retailers. Insurance companies often will take the risk of certain scenarios for a set value upfront. I.e if a supplier wanted to offer a promotion of £100 to every reader of The Sun that applied for it an insurer would have algerythms based on their forecasted redemptions and would underwrite any above this based an agreed fee upfront with the supplier. http://www.vcgpromorisk.com/ In our scenario i imagine the insurer lost out dramatically Edited May 16, 2017 by Blue_Guru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Blue_Guru said: Insurance is corporate gambling, it's insuring against a worst case scenario from a promotion. It's common practice in big FMCG's and retailers. Insurance companies often will take the risk of certain scenarios for a set value upfront. I.e if a supplier wanted to offer a promotion of £100 to every reader of The Sun that applied for it an insurer would have algerythms based on their forecasted redemptions and would underwrite any above this based an agreed fee upfront with the supplier. In our scenario i imagine the insurer lost out dramatically What do you love most - Oldham Athletic or jargon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: What do you love most - Oldham Athletic or jargon? One mans jargon is another mans laymans...I will remember that you are a picture book person in future Edited May 16, 2017 by Blue_Guru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Blue_Guru said: Insurance is corporate gambling, it's insuring against a worst case scenario from a promotion. It's common practice in big FMCG's and retailers. Insurance companies often will take the risk of certain scenarios for a set value upfront. I.e if a supplier wanted to offer a promotion of £100 to every reader of The Sun that applied for it an insurer would have algerythms based on their forecasted redemptions and would underwrite any above this based an agreed fee upfront with the supplier. http://www.vcgpromorisk.com/ In our scenario i imagine the insurer lost out dramatically Insurance is absolutely corporate gambling hence why a club would not, surely, be allowed to take out insurance against results. FA rules are extremely tight on any form of gambling so I would be amazed if they allow this loophole. Even if it was allowed, the premiums on this would be huge. The likelihood of us winning 3 or 4 of those games was not too long. Any insurer would have only offered similar 'odds' to a bookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 If I had to guess I'd suggest FA rule 5b might cover it: A Participant shall not, directly or indirectly, offer, agree to give, give, solicit, agree to accept or accept any bribe, gift or reward or consideration of any nature which is, or could appear to be related in any way to that Participant, or any other, failing to perform to the best of their ability, or to that Participant or any other person (whether a Participant or not), directly or indirectly, seeking to influence for an improper purpose, the result, progress, conduct or any other aspect of, or occurrence in, a football match or competition. ...relying more on "appear to be related" rather than actually related. You could argue that taking insurance payouts would be accepting consideration which appears to be related to the club failing to perform to the best of their ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 The insurance was the extra half a million staying in League 1 provided, it was a gamble that worked although to a degree it hampered any sort of progress coming into the season just gone, worst case scenario would of been going down on the back of the offer and the three wins, that would of left us up shit Creek without a paddle and could of proved terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Have I missed something with this? Somebody please explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Have I missed something with this? No. Somebody just invented a story and put it on OWTB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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