Callum Dolan

[disjointed]

22 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Or going 1 behind before we up the tempo. 

 

Or starting like it’s a testimonial. 
 

Or starting ok then fading after playing at tempo for 20 minutes. 
 

The opposing nature of what Mellon say he wants, (tempo/grit/hard work/have to run/move the ball quickly/look for the forward pass) and what we watch is the biggest thing that’s killing us at the minute. 
 

It’s either- 

 

The players are still in the comfort zone, and only play at tempo when they have to. 
 

Or 

 

They don’t believe in what he says. 
 

 

Or

 

The players just aren't good enough. 

[League one forever]

4 minutes ago, disjointed said:

Or

 

The players just aren't good enough. 

Possibly, but that’s the most staggering conclusion given the money spent. 

[adamoafc]

20 hours ago, Londonboy said:

Problem is Adam our midfield would get sliced through like a knife through butter....

Conlan would be aboutk as effective as a chocolate fire guard

By changing formation you give the opposition something to think about by putting added pressure on their back line if you add another striker in, attacking mid and wingers - meaning their full backs midfield wouldn’t have the freedom they do now. 

[BP1960]

6 hours ago, Londonboy said:

Exactly. Its fine to have these great ideas but in reality its bollocks with our current squad.

Im not Melons biggest fan but this would be suicide.....

 

We'd be 5 up by half time, mind you with our players it could finish 5-5.

 

[BP1960]

6 hours ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

Has to be worth a go as his current position doesn't appear to suit him at all, he doesn't impose himself or take control whatsoever.

 

I hope the Charsley injury isn't too serious as he'd be the only dead cert for me in that midfield at the moment. And has been one of our only goal threats

 

I'm coming round to the @yarddog73assessment Charsley is a decent player. They say you miss the better ones when they aren't there. 

[Guy Branston Pickle]

21 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I'm coming round to the @yarddog73assessment Charsley is a decent player. They say you miss the better ones when they aren't there. 

We've definitely missed his energy off the ball defending from the front and his movement when we have possession the last couple of games, our strikers have looked noticeably more isolated. Hopefully him and Kay can alternate in that role 

 

Where is Kay anyway. He made a couple of appearances then disappeared 

Edited September 12 by Guy Branston Pickle

[disjointed]

Not going to be popular this, but if we need energy on the pitch and in midfield we should give Hammond a run of games(I know he was away on international duty the last 2 games). He was instrumental in our high press in the 1st game of the season and looked a prospect. 

[Boyyou]

59 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

We'd be 5 up by half time, mind you with our players it could finish 5-5.

 

Any opposition coach worth his salt would simply go 4-5-1 and overrun a 4-4-2 by controlling midfield and wide areas, which is why very few teams use it these days.

[TheBigDog]

1 hour ago, Boyyou said:

Any opposition coach worth his salt would simply go 4-5-1 and overrun a 4-4-2 by controlling midfield and wide areas, which is why very few teams use it these days.

Then you would just adapt and go 3-5-2 to counter … 

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, Boyyou said:

Any opposition coach worth his salt would simply go 4-5-1 and overrun a 4-4-2 by controlling midfield and wide areas, which is why very few teams use it these days.

 

Argentina won the World Cup with it, so how is it these top class opposition coaches worth their salt didn't prevent it? 

Edited September 12 by BP1960

[nzlatic]

15 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Argentina won the World Cup with it, so how is it these top class opposition coaches worth their salt didn't prevent it? 

They didn’t. 
 

I’m not sure who uses it regularly these days but the teams that used it in the euros against England were extremely defensive. 

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

They didn’t. 
 

I’m not sure who uses it regularly these days but the teams that used it in the euros against England were extremely defensive. 

 

Says so here

https://tacticallyspeaking.co.uk/2023/01/04/why-has-the-4-4-2-formation-returned-and-whos-using-it/#:~:text=Argentina just won the World,channels%2C the half-spaces.

[Boyyou]

10 hours ago, TheBigDog said:

Then you would just adapt and go 3-5-2 to counter … 

So why not start that way? 

[Pidge]

442 looks neater at the kick off??

[disjointed]

6 minutes ago, Pidge said:

442 looks neater at the kick off??

OCD. 

[nzlatic]

9 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

Says so here

https://tacticallyspeaking.co.uk/2023/01/04/why-has-the-4-4-2-formation-returned-and-whos-using-it/#:~:text=Argentina just won the World,channels%2C the half-spaces.

I've read a few things about Argentina's tactics now and there's probably more nuance to this, so it's not as simple as me saying "They didn't" or someone else saying they did.

 

When people refer to 442, I think it's fair to say what they generally mean is 2 wingers, 2 central midfielders and 2 strikers. I don't think the 442 Argentina used in the world cup followed this. They played narrow wide players it seems and didn't use this formation all the time, just when the situation warranted it. As per this quote from this article:

The old-fashioned 4-4-2 has evolved such that the wide midfielders now barely qualify as wide players at all. They spend the majority of their time in the inside channels, the half-spaces.

 

Such as in the semi against Croatia when they wanted to flood the midfield to stifle any threat from Croatia. Di Maria didn't play in that game. And Messi wasn't playing as a striker, he would have had a roaming role. Technically it was probably 4-4-1-1. So I think the title of that article is misleading when it says 442 has "returned" as it is a different beast to the 442 we would have enjoyed in its heydey. 

 

It also looks like Argentina adopted many formations throughout the tournament, 442, 352, 433 for example. So again, the headline implying they won the world cup with it is also misleading as from what I've read about the final they played a 433, much like Spain did in the Euros. Di Maria came in and played on the left of the front 3. The 2 "wide" players in the semi final 442 played in the central 3 in the final. 

 

Back to the subject... maybe Dolan could work off the lone striker in a narrow 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1?

[Boyyou]

58 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

I've read a few things about Argentina's tactics now and there's probably more nuance to this, so it's not as simple as me saying "They didn't" or someone else saying they did.

 

When people refer to 442, I think it's fair to say what they generally mean is 2 wingers, 2 central midfielders and 2 strikers. I don't think the 442 Argentina used in the world cup followed this. They played narrow wide players it seems and didn't use this formation all the time, just when the situation warranted it. As per this quote from this article:

The old-fashioned 4-4-2 has evolved such that the wide midfielders now barely qualify as wide players at all. They spend the majority of their time in the inside channels, the half-spaces.

 

Such as in the semi against Croatia when they wanted to flood the midfield to stifle any threat from Croatia. Di Maria didn't play in that game. And Messi wasn't playing as a striker, he would have had a roaming role. Technically it was probably 4-4-1-1. So I think the title of that article is misleading when it says 442 has "returned" as it is a different beast to the 442 we would have enjoyed in its heydey. 

 

It also looks like Argentina adopted many formations throughout the tournament, 442, 352, 433 for example. So again, the headline implying they won the world cup with it is also misleading as from what I've read about the final they played a 433, much like Spain did in the Euros. Di Maria came in and played on the left of the front 3. The 2 "wide" players in the semi final 442 played in the central 3 in the final. 

 

Back to the subject... maybe Dolan could work off the lone striker in a narrow 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1?

Exactly this NZ. 

When people on here harp on about the good old days of 4-4-2 they ignore modern day tactical nuances. Teams have to be able to switch formations, often during the 90 minutes. 

Most coaches prefer 3 in midfield. Bottom line is having the right players and them performing consistently.

 

[spanishfly]

Having played at a reasonable level for nigh on 20 years, I can say this. If you have the right calibre of player under a manager who is great at motivating and gelling a team, the formation becomes much less relevant - you win football matches based on abilty all round the side. I'd say we have only got the right calibre of players in defence. 

 

Midfield is lacking and up front is becoming embarrassing - Norwood included.

 

As for the motivational manager; I'm starting to have doubts.

[Guy Branston Pickle]

In Argentina's case it probably helps that they had the greatest footballer of all time in their starting line up too.

[Monty Burns]

17 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

In Argentina's case it probably helps that they had the greatest footballer of all time in their starting line up too.

got to agree here

[Bobledgersheart]

25 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

In Argentina's case it probably helps that they had the greatest footballer of all time in their starting line up too.

Thought Bob Ledger was English ?   

[BP1960]

1 hour ago, Boyyou said:

Exactly this NZ. 

When people on here harp on about the good old days of 4-4-2 they ignore modern day tactical nuances. Teams have to be able to switch formations, often during the 90 minutes. 

Most coaches prefer 3 in midfield. Bottom line is having the right players and them performing consistently.

 

   

Modern tactical nuances has got us where we are now with MM sticking his head in the sand with the  boring inafective current trend. 

I do agree it's about  good players though and the ones we have now apart from a couple are not even outstanding in this lowly divison. 

I want attacking football back and if that means 442 or 424 I'd use it. 

Its 11 v 11 so if the opposition put one extra in midfield they are one short in another area to exploit. 

I await to be shot down for selecting my 442 attacking team, but it won't matter to me as it's only an opinion. 

GK Hudson

 

RB Caprice

DCR Raglan

DCL Monthe

LB Kitching

 

DMC Ogle (midfield enforcer) 

AMC Charsley

 

RW Kay 

ST Norwood

ST Fondop

LW Khan 

 

If any unfit or suspended we have others who can step in. 

 

Intructions. Relish going forward throughout and go for goals, no boring backwards sideways passing,

entertain the crowd. 

 

My managers  job application will be in next time, with the promise of signing James Berry and bringing Atherton back. 

Edited September 13 by BP1960

[TheBigDog]

4 hours ago, Boyyou said:

So why not start that way? 

In the off chance that the opposition coach was not worth his salt?

[Londonboy]

23 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

   

Modern tactical nuances has got us where we are now with MM sticking his head in the sand with the  boring inafective current trend. 

I do agree it's about  good players though and the ones we have now apart from a couple are not even outstanding in this lowly divison. 

I want attacking football back and if that means 442 or 424 I'd use it. 

Its 11 v 11 so if the opposition put one extra in midfield they are one short in another area to exploit. 

I await to be shot down for selecting my 442 attacking team, but it won't matter to me as it's only an opinion. 

GK Hudson

 

RB Caprice

DCR Raglan

DCL Monthe

LB Kitching

 

DMC Ogle (midfield enforcer) 

AMC Charsley

 

RW Kay 

ST Norwood

ST Fondop

LW Khan 

 

If any unfit or suspended we have others who can step in. 

 

Intructions. Relish going forward throughout and go for goals, no boring backwards sideways passing,

entertain the crowd. 

 

My managers  job application will be in next time, with the promise of signing James Berry and bringing Atherton back. 

You do make me laugh BP.

The threads about Dolan, and you rave on about how good you think he is, and say we need to let him off the leash... and criticise MM for not doing it......yet you deem him not good enough to start for us and play a rigid 4 4 2

[Ackey]

9 minutes ago, Londonboy said:

You do make me laugh BP.

The threads about Dolan, and you rave on about how good you think he is, and say we need to let him off the leash... and criticise MM for not doing it......yet you deem him not good enough to start for us and play a rigid 4 4 2

BP caught him watching Sideways on the bus and dropped him. Fined him £30 too!