The Next Oldham Manager

[Monty Burns]

we were down tho werent we? l remember wantin him to stay bc he was so passionate and he loved strikers.

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Shez got into the play offs in his first full season in Management. He was an experienced manager in 2016 and 2017 when we pulled away from relegation.

In that case our most successful experienced manager since 1966 is a bloke who rescued us from what seemed a likely relegation!  The bar is even lower than I thought!!

[Ackey]

I'm enjoying the ramble chat - but to be a Debbie Downer, I think we have to put context on "experienced". 

 

Someone coming in who's had a few years being average elsewhere or someone coming in to a barely-funded team which is already down is not quite the same as coming in today, is it?

 

Today we have a team probably outspending every other in the league, one of the best (on paper) strikers in the league, multiple players from League One, etc.etc.etc. Then on the manager side we could be looking at someone with genuine success on their CV. Mellon as an easy example has four promotions. When was the last time we even remotely considered someone of that calibre?

 

Of course it could all go tits up. And this is Latics, it probably bloody will. But we're not comparing apples right now, this is all new to us. 

[GlossopLatic]

32 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

In that case our most successful experienced manager since 1966 is a bloke who rescued us from what seemed a likely relegation!  The bar is even lower than I thought!!

 

Yep very few people working age or under can remember us bringing in an experienced manager and him bringing success.

 

Warnock, Wadsworth, Talbot, Moore, Penney, Bunn, Maarmria, Curle could all be classed as experienced hires. Most had promotions on their c.v.s before they came here. None can be seen as a success Moore steered us clear of relegation abd got us into the top 10 in L1 the following season comparatively that could be seen as success yet he was very much unloved. 

 

That said if you asked me to pick 2 names now I'd be interested in most it would be Williamson and Mellon. Although the prospect of Damian Duff intrigues me.

Edited October 6, 2023 by GlossopLatic

[Dave_Og]

12 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Yep very few people working age or under can remember us bringing in an experienced manager and him bringing success.

 

Warnock, Wadsworth, Talbot, Moore, Penney, Bunn, Maarmria, Curle could all be classed as experienced hires. Most had promotions on their c.v.s before they came here. None can be seen as a success Moore steered us clear of relegation abd got us into the top 10 in L1 the following season comparatively that could be seen as success yet he was very much unloved. 

 

That said if you asked me to pick 2 names now I'd be interested in most it would be Williamson and Mellon. Although the prospect of Damian Duff intrigues me.

 

I can't honestly say I'm over familiar with Mellon's ouevre but I think it's fair to say he seems to be on a downward path after the initial success with Tranmere.  I'd rather someone younger with fresher ideas

[oafcmetty]

1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said:

Wasn't it effectively Sharp's relegation? I think he resigned just before the drop, and Warnock had no time at all to rescue that season. Could be wrong.

Warnock had 16 games at the end of that season - plenty of time to get the points needed.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

2 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

Wasn't it effectively Sharp's relegation? I think he resigned just before the drop, and Warnock had no time at all to rescue that season. Could be wrong.

 

No, Warnock came in around late Feb or early March. There was no way we were relegated by then. We actually had a decent unbeaten run from November to December and a wretched run in the new year saw the end of Sharp.

 

I vaguely recall the first match Warnock took charge of was Bradford at home. They were in the mire with us, and we'd beaten them 3-0 during that earlier good run of form. We'd just signed Duxbury and (I think Reid) along with Matty Rush but lost that crucial match. We managed some decent results in the run in (1-0 at QPR, 3-2 at home to high flying Wolves and a 5-1 hammering of Swindon) but we were playing Saturday, Tuesday for more or less the whole run in and we ran out of legs.

 

Taking until October to win our first league match, plus the no win in seven in January and February was the main reasons we went down IMO. But I'm pretty sure we had a fighting chance when Warnock arrived.

[oafcmetty]

1 hour ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

I vaguely recall the first match Warnock took charge of was Bradford at home. They were in the mire with us, and we'd beaten them 3-0 during that earlier good run of form. We'd just signed Duxbury and (I think Reid) along with Matty Rush but lost that crucial match.

Yep, lost 2-1 in front of 9.5k. Look at that team!

 

Gary Kelly, Craig Fleming, Richard Graham, Carl Serrant, Ian Snodin, David Beresford, Lee Richardson, Paul Rickers, Nick Henry, Ian Ormondroyd, Nicky Banger

 

Tbf Bradford had Duxbury and Chris Waddle in the team!

[Monty Burns]

4 hours ago, Ackey said:

 

 

Of course it could all go tits up. And this is Latics, it probably bloody will. But we're not comparing apples right now, this is all new to us. 

l think that's partly responsible for a lot of thr hysteria in that we just don't know how were supposed to act

[daniel]

Bradford keen to speak to ST and NR about taking over at Bradford according to the ever so reliable Daily Star. 
Has to be a windup that surely. 

[ROKERITE]

Just now, daniel said:

Bradford keen to speak to ST and NR about taking over at Bradford according to the ever so reliable Daily Star. 
Has to be a windup that surely. 

I think most Bradford City supporters hope it is. I certainly do. It's in the Bradford Telegraph and Argus today.

[LaticMark]

Not all Bradford City fans are keen:

 

 

[PeteG]

7 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

Wasn't it effectively Sharp's relegation? I think he resigned just before the drop, and Warnock had no time at all to rescue that season. Could be wrong.

He was appointed in February, had plenty of time to turn it around. He was terrible for us and i've never been able to warm to him as a result.

[PeteG]

FWIW my preference would be Artell, i've been saying that for about the last 4 appointments but I doubt he's even on the radar. He did a great job at Crewe, plays decent attacking football and i've always liked the way he spoke after games (gives a very honest assessment). Remember chatting to him outside the ground when we had just either drew or lost to Crewe under Scholes and I complemented him on how they had played. He seemed genuinely pleased to hear an opposition fan say that and he actually said he was surprised as he thought it was the worst they had played in about 10 games! Shows what i know!!

[ROKERITE]

23 minutes ago, PeteG said:

FWIW my preference would be Artell, i've been saying that for about the last 4 appointments but I doubt he's even on the radar. He did a great job at Crewe, plays decent attacking football and i've always liked the way he spoke after games (gives a very honest assessment). Remember chatting to him outside the ground when we had just either drew or lost to Crewe under Scholes and I complemented him on how they had played. He seemed genuinely pleased to hear an opposition fan say that and he actually said he was surprised as he thought it was the worst they had played in about 10 games! Shows what i know!!

 

Artell has been most unfortunate not to have been given another opportunity eighteen months after he left Crewe. He's been linked to a few jobs but hasn't got them. 

I agree with you that he did very well at Alexandra with few resources over a period of more than five years. He got them promoted but in the end as he put it he just "ran out of puff".

He did take a while to build his promotion winning side but I'd certainly see him as a more deserving candidate than Micky Mellon.

[Steve_R]

Personally I’d rather we went for someone on their way up, such as Williamson or Parkinson at Alty. Someone who’s improving his current team all the time and plays good football. I’d even be tempted to enquire about the guy at Wealdstone, as they play lovely football so imagine what he could do with a full time squad. I guess location would be a problem, so Williamson is my favourite 

[Lags]

For Latics to get an experienced manager currently then surely said experienced man/woman (bugs me this political correct shite) would have failed somewhere at least once. I know it's possible that this experienced manager could come from the NL, but for me I'd want experienced higher up the ladder. 

So a young upwardly moving manager,  providing good football for me. 

[yarddog73]

4 minutes ago, Lags said:

For Latics to get an experienced manager currently then surely said experienced man/woman (bugs me this political correct shite) would have failed somewhere at least once. I know it's possible that this experienced manager could come from the NL, but for me I'd want experienced higher up the ladder. 

So a young upwardly moving manager,  providing good football for me. 

I feel the same, that's why I'd prefer us to go for Williamson or as someone else has suggested Stuart Maynard at Wealdstone, both are punching way above their weight but you can see from their interviews what they are all about and the football they want to play, I keep reading the Main Stand won't like the way Williamson likes to play it out from the back or his possession based style but I'm going to call that out as complete and utter bollocks as we've never really witnessed any manager attempting to play like that at BP.

[Lags]

23 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

I feel the same, that's why I'd prefer us to go for Williamson or as someone else has suggested Stuart Maynard at Wealdstone, both are punching way above their weight but you can see from their interviews what they are all about and the football they want to play, I keep reading the Main Stand won't like the way Williamson likes to play it out from the back or his possession based style but I'm going to call that out as complete and utter bollocks as we've never really witnessed any manager attempting to play like that at BP.

 

Main stand or any stand at BP will like a style of play that's winning and flying high in the league. Good flowing entertaining football on top would be the huge cherry on the cake. 

[IanMarshall's Mullet]

I’m not sure where this garbage about the main stand won’t like this and the main stand won’t like that. I’m in the main stand and I’ve spent years in the Chaddy, Lookers/North Stand and the Rochdale Rd end and they’re generally all the same in my experience. There are sensible people and gobshites littered around the ground everywhere …. 

[penrhyn]

Would have though it was time for an update soon whoever is going to get the job . Next week could be a defining moment in our recent history.

[penrhyn]

1 hour ago, IanMarshall's Mullet said:

I’m not sure where this garbage about the main stand won’t like this and the main stand won’t like that. I’m in the main stand and I’ve spent years in the Chaddy, Lookers/North Stand and the Rochdale Rd end and they’re generally all the same in my experience. There are sensible people and gobshites littered around the ground everywhere …. 

Stands to reason the main stand being fuller that it it would have a larger percentage of gobshites 

[mikeroyboy]

Frizzell and Royle managed the club for circa 23yrs. What a uniquely and  stable quarter of century, out of the blue. I wouldn’t be surprised if its not averaged 18 months or less a manager since then.

Frizzle, Royle, Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger are rarities. Long serving, successful managers but almost certainly exceeding all reasonable expectations at time of hiring

Football is unique in the volume of  supporter expectations from owners, managers and players.
Whoever we appoint in the coming day’s is a punt. I honestly don’t have a clue who I would like to see given the job. I’m just hoping he gels with the owners, players auxiliary staff. And land lucky with 2 or3 signings capable of making us tick going forward. 
 

I am, as usual, optimistic. And we really are due some luck with a manager. 

[Summerdeep]

^ 'Luck' is a factor that can be at least as important as coaching abilty and management skills in some situations. If you go all the way back to Frizzell, he almost didn't become our manager, and where would we have gone from there? 

 

Two of his first three home games early in 1970 were against Bradford PA and Lincoln. Bradford were rock bottom in Div 4 and hadn't won an away game for three years, but we struggled to create more than a few half-chances against them and they had two goals disallowed for offside, and we all know how marginal many of those decisions can be (final result 0-0). In the Lincoln game we only scraped a point with an equaliser in the third or fourth minute of injury time. If we'd lost those games I don't think Frizzell woud've lasted much longer as caretaker manager.

 

In any event, the man the club wanted as manager was Frank Lord, who was coaching in South Africa at the time. The board had already agreed terms with him and offered him the job, but for some reason he didn't show up to sign his contract. If Lord had got onto the plane that day in Cape Town, it would have been all over for Frizzell. I don't think we missed out on much with Lord - I remember him briefly turning up as caretaker manager of Preston in the 1972-73 season, but other than that he seems to have made no impact on the managerial scene.

 

Frizzell capitalized on the situation by guiding the side to their first away win in six months (2-0 at Exeter), and seven days later to a 1-0 win against league leaders and champions-elect Chesterfield, which was enough to persuade the board to offer him the job after the rebuff from Lord.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Summerdeep

[penrhyn]

Never knew Lord was offered the job before Frizzell. He was a Chadderton lad , he came to our school Greenfield Lane to coach us once . Our head Mr Winterbottom was a massive Latics fan and instilled latics into all of us . Not that it was needed with me my elder brother, dad, and grandad made sure of that.