oafcmetty Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 36 minutes ago, Ackey said: That's a very dated and biased view though. We've been fuck all for 30 years. Those players (even the aged pros who are nearly 30...) have never known this club to be doing anything more than making up the numbers in League 1, at best. It's not like they grow up watching VHS of the first Premier League era, is it? I'd bet a large portion of them know fuck all about the leagues around them entirely, never mind Latics specifically - they will (defensibly so) spend their time watching the Premier League and Champions League, won't they? They don't owe us or our club anything, and if someone like Alty offers them a better prospect (playing time, location, money, other incentives, just a vibe... anything...) then they should rightly fancy that option over us. "We should sign everyone else's best players" goes straight in the bucket with "4-4-2 is the only way to play", "we just need to attack more", "we should only sign hungry, young, dynamic players", "why are we using stats anyway?" and "what does that assistant coach do anyway?". 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 56 minutes ago, Ackey said: That's a very dated and biased view though. We've been fuck all for 30 years. Those players (even the aged pros who are nearly 30...) have never known this club to be doing anything more than making up the numbers in League 1, at best. It's not like they grow up watching VHS of the first Premier League era, is it? I'd bet a large portion of them know fuck all about the leagues around them entirely, never mind Latics specifically - they will (defensibly so) spend their time watching the Premier League and Champions League, won't they? They don't owe us or our club anything, and if someone like Alty offers them a better prospect (playing time, location, money, other incentives, just a vibe... anything...) then they should rightly fancy that option over us. You're right, but we've still got more to offer than most in the division. If players want game time and we can't give it to them, then fair enough if they go somewhere else - but it means we've got someone better in that position. We should be competitive in terms of wages, location (especially Fylde...jeez!), the vibe seems good as far as we can tell plus we've got the biggest fanbase and best stadium. Granted our history won't attract many, but it still looks better having playing for Oldham on your CV than it does Alty, say. It should all be in place for us to be up there every season in this division. If not, there's something not right with the way the club is going about their business.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 49 minutes ago, JoeP said: You're right, but we've still got more to offer than most in the division. Agreed. But we have to earn it. 13 hours ago, Littlemoor Lad said: The mere size and history of this club should be more than enough to see them fancy chancing their arm at something greater This is the objectionable part. We're not owed anything by anyone, and if someone decides we're not for them I don't blame them. And that's because, and I've said this before, culture doesn't change over night or easily. We have to earn it, as a club, as a fan base, as everything. I suspect when players ask around their mates "should I go to Oldham" there's still plenty that say "fuck no..." - because they don't think about Premier League Oldham, they think of the last 20 years. Two years of progress is great, but that's a blink of an eye compared to what's being overcome! We can get there, I believe we're doing it. But it's slow and steady, not miracles and unicorns! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, oafcmetty said: "We should sign everyone else's best players" goes straight in the bucket with "4-4-2 is the only way to play", "we just need to attack more", "we should only sign hungry, young, dynamic players", "why are we using stats anyway?" and "what does that assistant coach do anyway?". 442..not been tried, how do you know it won't work? Need to attack more..not been tried..how do you know it won't work Hungry young dynamic players.. not been tried, even Alfie Atherton who's gone to a Championship club. Stats tried..we know they don't work. Assistant coach.. do we know who it is? Edited September 6 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Think Mellon intended to play 442 at the start of the season but injury to Ogle and 2 of his main 3 strikers forced him to go to 3511 which has worked OK at times. Personally I don't think it makes that much difference what the formation is, attacking intent is whay we've lacked, going hard at teams from the kick off and especially after we've scored. When Garner and Norwood are up to speed we may see a change to your favoured formation as I'd like to see Ogle rampaging forward on the overlap from right back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, Ackey said: That's a very dated and biased view though. We've been fuck all for 30 years. Those players (even the aged pros who are nearly 30...) have never known this club to be doing anything more than making up the numbers in League 1, at best. It's not like they grow up watching VHS of the first Premier League era, is it? I'd bet a large portion of them know fuck all about the leagues around them entirely, never mind Latics specifically - they will (defensibly so) spend their time watching the Premier League and Champions League, won't they? They don't owe us or our club anything, and if someone like Alty offers them a better prospect (playing time, location, money, other incentives, just a vibe... anything...) then they should rightly fancy that option over us. We'll be fuck all for another 30 year's with that outlook I'll stick with that view and hold it there, until we're back where we belong and that's league one minimum. We'll still be a big club then, as we are now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 3 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said: We'll be fuck all for another 30 year's with that outlook I'll stick with that view and hold it there, until we're back where we belong and that's league one minimum. We'll still be a big club then, as we are now In todays World, we are average club in league one. We are nowhere near a big club in that league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 21 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said: We'll be fuck all for another 30 year's with that outlook I'll stick with that view and hold it there, until we're back where we belong and that's league one minimum. We'll still be a big club then, as we are now We've been doing that for the last 30 years it's got us precisely nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 38 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said: We'll be fuck all for another 30 year's with that outlook I'll stick with that view and hold it there, until we're back where we belong and that's league one minimum. We'll still be a big club then, as we are now That's the League One where someone's just signed a striker for £10m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 18 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: That's the League One where someone's just signed a striker for £10m. Very much against the norm that though isn’t it? There are clubs in League 1 now who I believe we are bigger than! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, BP1960 said: 442..not been tried, how do you know it won't work? Need to attack more..not been tried..how do you know it won't work Hungry young dynamic players.. not been tried, even Alfie Atherton who's gone to a Championship club. Stats tried..we know they don't work. Assistant coach.. do we know who it is? The prosecution rests your honour. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 14 minutes ago, daniel said: Very much against the norm that though isn’t it? There are clubs in League 1 now who I believe we are bigger than! I read somewhere that over half of L1 clubs broke their transfer record this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 38 minutes ago, daniel said: Very much against the norm that though isn’t it? There are clubs in League 1 now who I believe we are bigger than! That might be the case but we are a long way away from competing on level terms with them. Its important to accept the reality of the situation you are in we are a national league club the owners inherited a shell of a club 2 years ago both on and off the pitch. We've improved both on and off the pitch since then we are still a National League club and it will still take alot of work to get to league 2 nevermind going all the way through to league 1. Their will alot of bumps in the road and hurdles we have to get over. We can't expect it to be handed to us that would be entitlement. It's not going to be easy at all we are 4 without a win which might turn to 5 tomorrow evening but it won't mean our season is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 49 minutes ago, daniel said: Very much against the norm that though isn’t it? There are clubs in League 1 now who I believe we are bigger than! In what sense though? Trophies over history we're nowhere, average attendances puts us bottom 4/5 in league one (although in reality its lower given some of the average attendances in league two), the all time league position table has us 49th so that puts us top end of league one but we've not actually been in or above that position for 30 years. We're a big club for National League, but we go any higher and we blend in with tons of others. We were bigger than a lot of them once, but not anymore unfortunately. Edited September 6 by nzlatic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, Littlemoor Lad said: We'll be fuck all for another 30 year's with that outlook I think we've been in decline for 30 years and can do better. You seem to think we've been a big club for 30 years and don't need to change? Maybe I'm misunderstanding? 1 hour ago, Littlemoor Lad said: We'll still be a big club then, as we are now Well I just can't fathom that. We've had nothing but relegations, struggles, multiple near-miss administrations, relegations again, an actual administration... I could go on... We have huge potential and I have the same hopes as others. But to just stand about saying "we were in the Premier League you know, we're massive..." is so, so backwards. 1 hour ago, Littlemoor Lad said: I'll stick with that view and hold it there... Yep, to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 8 minutes ago, nzlatic said: In what sense though? Trophies over history we're nowhere, average attendances puts us bottom 4/5 in league one (although in reality is lower should be lower given some of the average attendances in league two), the all time league position table has us 49th so that puts us top end of league one but we've not actually been in or above that position for 30 years. We're a big club for National League, but we go any higher and we blend in with tons of others. We were bigger than a lot of them once, but not anymore unfortunately. It's pretty remarkable that anyone can think we're big for L1 level given where we are and how long it is since we competed up there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 52 minutes ago, nzlatic said: average attendances puts us bottom 4/5 in league one But you’re not comparing like for like are you?…What do you expect against crowd pullers the likes of Braintree, Tamworth, Wealdstone, Yeovil, Solihull, and Ebbsfleet!!!! We are still a very average team in NL but getting the same or better crowds than several teams 2 divisions higher! If we were competing up near the top of that division I’m fairly confident we would be getting around a 10k average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggleblue Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said: That might be the case but we are a long way away from competing on level terms with them. Its important to accept the reality of the situation you are in we are a national league club the owners inherited a shell of a club 2 years ago both on and off the pitch. We've improved both on and off the pitch since then we are still a National League club and it will still take alot of work to get to league 2 nevermind going all the way through to league 1. Their will alot of bumps in the road and hurdles we have to get over. We can't expect it to be handed to us that would be entitlement. It's not going to be easy at all we are 4 without a win which might turn to 5 tomorrow evening but it won't mean our season is over. We should still be higher than Harrogate or Barrow. But they've earned it something we have yet to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) L1 average attendances I know its only a sample size of 3 games but even if we averaged 10k in L1 a figure we got nowhere near doing during 2 decades in that league it would only put us 9th highest in the league. L1 has got bigger since we left as has the championship. Our first season only Bristol City and Watford got over 8k average now the majority of teams do. The average attendance this season in L1 is 10536 twice as high as the average gates we were getting when last time we were at the 3rd tier. A couple of promotions will no doubt really shift the momentum and drive up crowds but we'd be fighting against bigger fish than we would have been from when we were last in it. Edited September 6 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 17 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: But you’re not comparing like for like are you?…What do you expect against crowd pullers the likes of Braintree, Tamworth, Wealdstone, Yeovil, Solihull, and Ebbsfleet!!!! We are still a very average team in NL but getting the same or better crowds than several teams 2 divisions higher! If we were competing up near the top of that division I’m fairly confident we would be getting around a 10k average. We struggled to get 10k in the Premier League days... Using gates as a marker is a tricky one. We're actually getting better gates now - certainly in terms of home fans - than we were for the majority of the time in the two divisions above. Which is the true reflection of our support? That said - we are a big club and should view ourselves as so in this division. However you want to measure it, we should have higher ambitions than the likes of Fylde and Alty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 a figure we got nowhere near during 2 decades in that league. Correct…. because we never competed. We were crap from start to finish!! Under new ownership and with a bit of momentum like Stockport I think we are more than capable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 26 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: a figure we got nowhere near during 2 decades in that league. Correct…. because we never competed. We were crap from start to finish!! Under new ownership and with a bit of momentum like Stockport I think we are more than capable! 2 out of the 20 we did compete in 0203 and in 0607 we didn't get above 7000 in either campaign and with big clubs coming down from the championship competing at the top end of L1 is not getting easier. I thibk it's fair to say aswell while the Rothwells have been very generous and I don't believe they are going to turn off the spending taps just yet they haven't got the spending clout of Stockport or Wrexhams owners. Having said all of this we've got to get to L1 first before we think about competing in it. Edited September 6 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 50 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: But you’re not comparing like for like are you?…What do you expect against crowd pullers the likes of Braintree, Tamworth, Wealdstone, Yeovil, Solihull, and Ebbsfleet!!!! We are still a very average team in NL but getting the same or better crowds than several teams 2 divisions higher! If we were competing up near the top of that division I’m fairly confident we would be getting around a 10k average. That's a different point though, that's the potential for how big we could be, not how big we are now. I'm not sure what we could achieve attendance wise after a few years of success. When was our average last around the 10k mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 4 hours ago, BP1960 said: 442..not been tried, how do you know it won't work? Need to attack more..not been tried..how do you know it won't work Hungry young dynamic players.. not been tried, even Alfie Atherton who's gone to a Championship club. Stats tried..we know they don't work. Assistant coach.. do we know who it is? Atherton has joined the development squad, he’s not playing every weekend is he. Stats do work, clear evidence they do. Assistant coach to Brabin? I’m not against 442 but we also don’t need to play it. We do attack more, far more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 23 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: Atherton has joined the development squad, he’s not playing every weekend is he. Stats do work, clear evidence they do. Assistant coach to Brabin? I’m not against 442 but we also don’t need to play it. We do attack more, far more. Stats work when there is proper analysis of them, which the average fan isn't equipped to perform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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