Dave_Og Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Yes, I know we're not... This landmark is often cited as an appropriate time to reach some sort of judgement on how t he season is progressing/will go - so what counts as exceeding expectations, meeting them or falling below? We have 9pts after 6 games and now have fixtures vs Southend (h) Halifax (a) Woking (a) Yeovil (h) From general pre-season expectations, that's two sides we'd have expected to be up there and two that might have struggled, but all are currently below us in the table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_b_100 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 12 points better off and a few plsces higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 21 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Yes, I know we're not... This landmark is often cited as an appropriate time to reach some sort of judgement on how t he season is progressing/will go - so what counts as exceeding expectations, meeting them or falling below? We have 9pts after 6 games and now have fixtures vs Southend (h) Halifax (a) Woking (a) Yeovil (h) From general pre-season expectations, that's two sides we'd have expected to be up there and two that might have struggled, but all are currently below us in the table They’re two things you look at. Performance & Results. Performance wise we are better than last season, and I expect that to continue. Results wise it’s indifferent/ok, that’s fine- for now, but not sustainable the more we progress into the season. Good performances without results is ultimately pretty pointless. What I find in interesting is - what is more important for fans, performance or result? I would say results every time. But when we were doing well results wise last season a lot said- ‘yeah, but we’re not playing well’ or ‘the football is poor.’ Which it was, but we were winning for a time. This season results aren’t great but people are much happier watching the game. Interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 11 minutes ago, League one forever said: They’re two things you look at. Performance & Results. Performance wise we are better than last season, and I expect that to continue. Results wise it’s indifferent/ok, that’s fine- for now, but not sustainable the more we progress into the season. Good performances without results is ultimately pretty pointless. What I find in interesting is - what is more important for fans, performance or result? I would say results every time. But when we were doing well results wise last season a lot said- ‘yeah, but we’re not playing well’ or ‘the football is poor.’ Which it was, but we were winning for a time. This season results aren’t great but people are much happier watching the game. Interesting. Performance and results are closely linked, but results will always take priority (obviously). What performances do provide is more time for a manager. Fans are generally happy with how we are playing, I certainly come away more pleased and can actually see a system we are trying to play. If performances are bad, that’s fine when you are winning but one or two losses and fans will get on the managers back as the fans don’t even have a result to get behind and the football is poor. Our main issues are clear, a creative number 10 who will provide goals and assists, plus a striker we can rely on. Norwood is that striker, providing he can keep fit. But that number 10 role needs sorting, that could be Dolan. What is clear, Mike Fondop needs to be nothing more than an impact player, otherwise we won’t even make playoffs imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 50 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Yes, I know we're not... This landmark is often cited as an appropriate time to reach some sort of judgement on how t he season is progressing/will go - so what counts as exceeding expectations, meeting them or falling below? We have 9pts after 6 games and now have fixtures vs Southend (h) Halifax (a) Woking (a) Yeovil (h) From general pre-season expectations, that's two sides we'd have expected to be up there and two that might have struggled, but all are currently below us in the table If we look at last season's table, 87 points was needed to beat Barnet to the title, 82 points to beat Bromley to third and 72 points to get into the playoffs. I appreciate it's not as simple as that, but it gives a rough guide to the sort of points totals that might be needed for various finishing spots. To achieve those point averages we'd need 3 wins and a draw to get 10 points for title form over the first 10 games, 3 wins and a defeat to have top 3 form and 2 wins, 1 draw and 1 defeat to have play off form. Personally, I think if we achieve any of those points totals over the next 4 games that's a really good start. We've got a manager who's just had his first pre season and a large squad turnover. Our performances have been much improved on last season and we've been arguably a better finisher away from being a few points better off. I expect us to get stronger as the season goes on. If we're producing promotion challenging form off just shy of the first quarter of the season that should set us up for a real challenge at the top end over the full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) The jury's still out for me. The first two games were textbook. The Fylde and Gateshead games were good performances, we would have lost them last season and we came back after being behind, even if we didn't win... which is positive. Didn't see Aldershot, but I don't think there can ever really be positive about losing 4-1 at Aldershot, even if we did play well in parts. Altrincham I didn't like. There's definitely an improvement, but it's still too early to call it. I dunno if I can get that enthusiastic about just being slightly better than last season. It'll probably get us in the play-offs, but there will still be a lot of duff games we'll have to endure. The next four games I want a win on Saturday, then 2 draws and a win from the next 3. That would be a good start to the season. Edited September 5 by JoeP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 14 minutes ago, JoeP said: The jury's still out for me. The first two games were textbook. The Fylde and Gateshead games were good performances, we would have lost them last season and we came back after being behind, even if we didn't win... which is positive. Didn't see Aldershot, but I don't think there can ever really be positive about losing 4-1 at Aldershot, even if we did play well in parts. Altrincham I didn't like. There's definitely an improvement, but it's still too early to call it. I dunno if I can get that enthusiastic about just being slightly better than last season. It'll probably get us in the play-offs, but there will still be a lot of duff games we'll have to endure. The next four games I want a win on Saturday, then 2 draws and a win from the next 3. That would be a good start to the season. I like this method of breaking things down as the season progresses, So, can we adopt this 4 game assessment format as an ongoing thing and make judgements as to what we've achieved as a collective? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 2 points per game on average please. Or close to. So 3 wins and a draw from those next 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 4 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: 2 points per game on average please. Or close to. So 3 wins and a draw from those next 4. I hope Micky's listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) 59 minutes ago, JoeP said: I dunno if I can get that enthusiastic about just being slightly better than last season. It'll probably get us in the play-offs, but there will still be a lot of duff games we'll have to endure. Aye. I’m split on this. In wanting to support Frank and not be impatient I try to accept that any improvement is acceptable, as long as we’re going in the right direction. But you can’t help but feel sometimes that despite all the money that has gone in, we’re not really moving forward. Prozac put on X the other day that we’re 1 point better off after 6 games than we were under Shez. I’m not comparing, just pointing out that is a fairly damming reflection on the mediocre output of the last two years. Edited September 5 by League one forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 12 minutes ago, League one forever said: Aye. I’m split on this. In wanting to support Frank and not be impatient I try to accept that any improvement is acceptable, as long as we’re going in the right direction. But you can’t help but feel sometimes that despite all the money that has gone in, we’re not really moving forward. Prozac put on X the other day that we’re 1 point better off after 6 games than we were under Shez. I’m not comparing, just pointing out that is a fairly damming reflection on the mediocre output of the last two years. I still think if we'd have stuck with Shez for a bit and spent only a fraction of the budget we have done we wouldn't be much worse off now. The "incremental improvement" line is fair enough, but the fanbase haven't seen any sort of success for 30 years. There should rightly still be patience with Frank and he's saved the club, but a lot of fans have been patient with the club in general for long enough. I can sort of see why a lot of people might think that they've earned their stripes and will come back when there's actual, obvious improvement, rather than just incremental improvement such as finishing 9th rather than 10th. One thing for certain to come out of Alty is that I'm at an age where I can't do the all day away-day boozing anymore, which was always more fun than the football. So for me, the football's going to have to get better! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradKnowles1 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 We need to be winning. I’m not arsed about unbeaten runs with draws. Draws kill you like last season. 5 or 6 games without a win gets concerning for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1267 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Brad is correct here. Last season we only lost 3 more than runaway winners Chesterfield but they won 16 more than us. Problem was we drew 18 but they drew only 5. They were not always great but seemed to get a win were we would draw, bit like Altrincham and the Gateshead games recently. We have to be more ruthless and look to putting teams to bed early on forcing teams to open up, then with our said fitness levels and better quality we should see games out easier whilst possibly scoring more goals. Still think 2 up top is needed but overall I believe we already look better than previous seasons. Beating Southend on Sat and Halifax on Tues is very achievable imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronoafc Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 5 hours ago, LightDN123 said: Performance and results are closely linked, but results will always take priority (obviously). What performances do provide is more time for a manager. Fans are generally happy with how we are playing, I certainly come away more pleased and can actually see a system we are trying to play. If performances are bad, that’s fine when you are winning but one or two losses and fans will get on the managers back as the fans don’t even have a result to get behind and the football is poor. Our main issues are clear, a creative number 10 who will provide goals and assists, plus a striker we can rely on. Norwood is that striker, providing he can keep fit. But that number 10 role needs sorting, that could be Dolan. What is clear, Mike Fondop needs to be nothing more than an impact player, otherwise we won’t even make playoffs imo. I came on here to type exactly all of this so I won’t bother, this is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Last season we were 10 points from 10 games. We sacked Unsworth then lost only 1 of our next 11....right decision. MM got 7 points from our last 11 games last season. He has 9 from 6 this season. His record is 16 points from his last 17 games.....relegation form in any division. We need a minimum of 7 points from our next 4 games in my eyes to make his position credible ie. 16 pts from 10 games, which is an upwards trajectory and may just about squeeze us into the playoffs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 6 hours ago, Dave_Og said: We have 9pts after 6 games and now have fixtures vs Southend (h) Halifax (a) Woking (a) Yeovil (h) 10 from 12 is the minimum we should expect. I reckon we’ll win all four Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astottie Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 5 hours ago, nzlatic said: If we look at last season's table, 87 points was needed to beat Barnet to the title, 82 points to beat Bromley to third and 72 points to get into the playoffs. I appreciate it's not as simple as that, but it gives a rough guide to the sort of points totals that might be needed for various finishing spots. To achieve those point averages we'd need 3 wins and a draw to get 10 points for title form over the first 10 games, 3 wins and a defeat to have top 3 form and 2 wins, 1 draw and 1 defeat to have play off form. Personally, I think if we achieve any of those points totals over the next 4 games that's a really good start. We've got a manager who's just had his first pre season and a large squad turnover. Our performances have been much improved on last season and we've been arguably a better finisher away from being a few points better off. I expect us to get stronger as the season goes on. If we're producing promotion challenging form off just shy of the first quarter of the season that should set us up for a real challenge at the top end over the full season. Before the season started I looked at how we might get 84 points, which would see us in the thick of it at the end. 8 teams who we should beat home and away - 6 points 3 teams we should beat at home and draw away- 4 points 6 teams we should beat at home and lose away - 3 points 6 teams we should draw to at home and lose away -1 point It wasn't scientific, just a way of allocating 84 points. It could have been done differently. So far we are one point behind where we should be. The games that didn't go as I predicted were Fylde at home (win) and Alty (defeat). I have us down for 5 points from the next 4 games although so far those teams haven't been performing as well as I expected them to so here's hoping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 5 Author Share Posted September 5 30 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: 10 from 12 is the minimum we should expect. I reckon we’ll win all four I'm not suggesting it would represent a great start but I'd take seven points from the next four matches if they were offered now. Can't see where the goals come from at present to suggest we'll go on a run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyyou Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 32 minutes ago, Londonboy said: Last season we were 10 points from 10 games. We sacked Unsworth then lost only 1 of our next 11....right decision. MM got 7 points from our last 11 games last season. He has 9 from 6 this season. His record is 16 points from his last 17 games.....relegation form in any division. We need a minimum of 7 points from our next 4 games in my eyes to make his position credible ie. 16 pts from 10 games, which is an upwards trajectory and may just about squeeze us into the playoffs..... How can you add last seasons results to this and make a credible judgement. Totally different squad playing a different style against opponents who are new or have changed/evolved since last time. It's all about what happens from now that counts. Setting short term points targets is also .... well, pointless. Depends what your rivals are up to as well. We could lose the next four then win 10 in a row. It's all about the destination, not the journey, and I hope MM is just telling them to get out there and try to win every game. Trust we will as fans will also show some patience for the marathon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) I think we can draw a few conclusions already, we are much better between the boxes their are patterns of play that have developed We have created chances and need to be more ruthless, but I also feel at times that final pass/final ball into the box needs to be abit better. Khan or Dolan might be able to help with that. Uptop we know we can rely on James Norwood to score but other players are going to have to chip in. While Fondop has missed a few chances he is capable of getting double figures we might get a similar return from Garner. But we really need goals from midfield and defense too you can't rely on just your strikers. When we last won promotion Neil Redfearn bagged 17 from midfield. In 2003 David Eyres scored 16 he was predominantly playing as Wing back most of that season albeit Like Jez and advanced one. In 0607 while Chris Porter bagged heavily Andy Liddell got double figures as to did Paul Warne, Gary Mcdonald also contributed with 8 or 9 too. If you want promotion their will be times in games where we will need someone to step up and score and turn 1 point into 3. Harry Charsley is capable of getting a double figures goals return it's certainly what he should be aiming at. But others will need to contribute too. That way we can turn some of these draws into wins if we do that just a few more times we will be in woth a great shout. Really we need to be well placed in the top 7 going into the Christmas period. I won't read too much into the league table just yet. Absolutely no guarantee that Eastleigh and Gateshead will be top come May. I don't think their will be a team as formidable as Chesterfield last season or Wrexham and Notts County the season before. The team that wins the league might be able to do it with under 90 points this time around. I still fancy Barnet and Forrest Green to be the front runners but we should be in that pack behind them and if we do things right we could be at the front of it and possibly more. Edited September 5 by GlossopLatic 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 I'll make a conservative prediction that we will get 7 more points from the next 4 taking us to 16 from the first 10 not phenomenal but certainly enough to keep us in the promotion conversation. At some point this season we are going to have to go through a phase where we really rattle off the wins if we want promotion say 6,7 or 8 straight wins something that will really but a wedge between us and the teams chasing the top 7. My big hope is, is that we can really peak towards the end of the season which I believe is what Mellon did at Tranmere. A good start is Important a good finish is critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 I'd hope for 18 after 10, 20 would be great and probably see us in the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 5 Author Share Posted September 5 25 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: I'd hope for 18 after 10, 20 would be great and probably see us in the top 3. We definitely won't have 20... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 8 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: We definitely won't have 20... Okay smart arse 19 then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 14 hours ago, Boyyou said: How can you add last seasons results to this and make a credible judgement. Totally different squad playing a different style against opponents who are new or have changed/evolved since last time. It's all about what happens from now that counts. Setting short term points targets is also .... well, pointless. Depends what your rivals are up to as well. We could lose the next four then win 10 in a row. It's all about the destination, not the journey, and I hope MM is just telling them to get out there and try to win every game. Trust we will as fans will also show some patience for the marathon Sorry I thought the tread was 10 games in? I think it's fine to judge a team after 10 games. Dont get your issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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