MATCH: Ebbsfleet (A) 28/09/24

[Littlemoor Lad]

14 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I was one of the first to call out £100,000 signingo Nuttall for his body langauge and attitude and kept being told he would be worth the money. 

I am now among the first to call out Norwood and being told he will change. 

I'm afraid unless he shows more spirit in a team based on high work rate MM won't start him, with the inevitable loan move following. 

I hope he can show more resolution, but it doesn't appear to me so far. 

Having a go reportedly at Khan was all wrong IMO as Khan had done all the hard work and was only a shade off scoring himself. Doubt if he'd have passed the ball in Khan's position.  

That's my opinion anyway. Hope he proves me wrong though and it's just a fitness issue. 

This has already begun and if young Jack gets off to a flier, it'll be him that pair's up with our current number one on merit, Fondop.

[Scapegoat]

Norwood:

 

I get that some will criticise his approach and demeanour, he isn't a badge kissing / fist pumping fan favourite type - he doesn't try to get supporters to warm to him.  If he is banging in the goals then nobody cares, and last season he started really well.

 

He scored 17 in 40 league games 23/24, which is a very creditable return.  But when you look at the details, he only scored 3 after the New Year (all penalties) and this year has just the one to date.....so I think it's reasonable that there will be some grumbling.

 

 

However I still think he is a great player, particularly at this level, and he gets in good positions and given the right service will score goals.  He can look disinterested at times, but then can explode with pretty decent pace when there is an opportunity and he can harry and hassle defenders when we press well.

 

MM knows him and I think there is a good level of respect between each other - but I also think that with Garner / Fondop / and the new loanee, that Norwood will have to work to keep his spot and can see Mellon rotating and swapping the forward line around.

[LightDN123]

1 hour ago, Scapegoat said:

Norwood:

 

I get that some will criticise his approach and demeanour, he isn't a badge kissing / fist pumping fan favourite type - he doesn't try to get supporters to warm to him.  If he is banging in the goals then nobody cares, and last season he started really well.

 

He scored 17 in 40 league games 23/24, which is a very creditable return.  But when you look at the details, he only scored 3 after the New Year (all penalties) and this year has just the one to date.....so I think it's reasonable that there will be some grumbling.

 

 

However I still think he is a great player, particularly at this level, and he gets in good positions and given the right service will score goals.  He can look disinterested at times, but then can explode with pretty decent pace when there is an opportunity and he can harry and hassle defenders when we press well.

 

MM knows him and I think there is a good level of respect between each other - but I also think that with Garner / Fondop / and the new loanee, that Norwood will have to work to keep his spot and can see Mellon rotating and swapping the forward line around.

He’s scored two. 

[JoeP]

11 minutes ago, LightDN123 said:

He’s scored two. 

 

One and a half!  Has the dubious goals panel even awarded him the one at Woking?

[League one forever]

1 hour ago, Scapegoat said:

Norwood:

 

I get that some will criticise his approach and demeanour, he isn't a badge kissing / fist pumping fan favourite type - he doesn't try to get supporters to warm to him.  If he is banging in the goals then nobody cares, and last season he started really well.

 

He scored 17 in 40 league games 23/24, which is a very creditable return.  But when you look at the details, he only scored 3 after the New Year (all penalties) and this year has just the one to date.....so I think it's reasonable that there will be some grumbling.

 

 

However I still think he is a great player, particularly at this level, and he gets in good positions and given the right service will score goals.  He can look disinterested at times, but then can explode with pretty decent pace when there is an opportunity and he can harry and hassle defenders when we press well.

 

MM knows him and I think there is a good level of respect between each other - but I also think that with Garner / Fondop / and the new loanee, that Norwood will have to work to keep his spot and can see Mellon rotating and swapping the forward line around.

Good post. 

The problem is nothing to do with kissing badges/being a fan favourite/smiling/not celebrating when he scores. 
 

It’s simply this. 
 

When your demeanour and how you act says you’re the main man. (Which he should be, given his pedigree and ability) But your own play doesn’t reflect that status it’s a problem. 
 

In other words. 
 

Solely on the pitch- His ego is writing cheques his play can’t cash. 

[AndyB2]

Nuttall parallels are a bit misguided.

 

You know why? 
 

Micky Mellon.

 

Unsworth was utterly useless and couldn’t see what was in front of him. 
 

mellon is the opposite.

 

if mellon thinks Norwood is not pulling his weight or adding value to the team then he will drop him.

 

I am happy with a moody and miserable Norwood if Mellon is. 
 

that’s not blind loyalty but for now, Mellon has done enough to earn our trust 

Edited Monday at 06:19 PM by AndyB2

[League one forever]

5 minutes ago, AndyB2 said:

Nuttall parallels are a bit misguided.

 

You know why? 
 

Micky Mellon.

 

Unsworth was utterly useless and couldn’t see what was in front of him. 
 

mellon is the opposite.

 

if mellon thinks Norwood is not pulling his weight or adding value to the team then he will drop him.

 

I am happy with a moody and miserable Norwood if Mellon is. 
 

that’s not blind loyalty but for now, Mellon has done enough to earn our trust 

Yep.
 

Agreed Andy. 

[JoeP]

35 minutes ago, League one forever said:

When your demeanour and how you act says you’re the main man. (Which he should be, given his pedigree and ability) But your own play doesn’t reflect that status it’s a problem. 

 

I don't know if he actually think he's the main man anymore (I certainly doubt his teammates do...).  Fondop, Khan et al aren't going to take his "advice" seriously when the team actually ticks along nicely without him.

 

I just think he's completely and utterly fed-up here and thought he'd made a mistake not long after signing. I'm starting to think his "lets go win the league" video wasn't actually slightly tongue in cheek.  He surely knew it was going to be hard work and not that straight forward?  He has to take a bit of personal responsibility for thinking we were going to be simply handed the trophy, but the club have to take some responsibility for suggesting that might be the case to him.  I don't care if he celebrates or not if he's doing the business, but it does seem a bit weird that he didn't seem to have a problem celebrating at his other clubs (of the goals of his I've seen...).

 

We certainly shouldn't be changing our (currently successful) style of play to try and indulge him on the off-chance he starts firing.  If we could somehow off-load him and Reid that's a fat chunk of the wage budget that Mellon could do something with... 

 

 

[League one forever]

12 minutes ago, JoeP said:

I just think he's completely and utterly fed-up here and thought he'd made a mistake not long after signing. I'm starting to think his "lets go win the league" video wasn't actually slightly tongue in cheek.  He surely knew it was going to be hard work and not that straight forward?  He has to take a bit of personal responsibility for thinking we were going to be simply handed the trophy, but the club have to take some responsibility for suggesting that might be the case to him.

I agree about him being fed up and/or regretting the move. But I think it’s for slightly different reasons than you mention. 
 

The Barnsley chairman said at the time they couldn’t match what we offered. I don’t blame him one bit for taking the money in a short career.  But once here I think he saw the standard, compared it what he had left and didn’t want to be here. Maybe if he had signed this summer and gone into a much better side we’d see the best version of him. But I think the rot has set in now.  He has struggled to adapt at this stage of his career to playing with lesser players, and it’s affected his own game.  Career moves made purely for the money can often be regretted. . 
 

In the Beckham Doc, the talking heads discuss his move to America From Real Madrid. They made him an unbelievable financial offer. But when he arrived he saw the standard and found it really difficult to adjust, he wanted out because he knew he was miles better than the vast majority of them. He fell out with some players, and got a loan to Milan. When he came back he made up with the players, realised he had to make the best of it and they went onto to win the league. 

[doctor evil]

Norwood isn't necessarily the type of player who's going to be busy all match, he's not going to madly chase down lost causes or harass the back 4. But what he does do is know where he needs to be, you only have to look at his cameo at the weekend when he should've been slipped in twice. His reaction of frustration is understandable but I don't think it's necessarily a negative thing, he demands more from players (and I think himself, which has at times led to him trying to do a bit too much). A team needs different characters, that's what drives succes. If we're to go up, I can't see a scenario where he isn't one of our main contributors. 

[Bobledgersheart]

Of the 2 occasions when he thought he should have been played in, the Lundstram one he's right to be annoyed but when Khan shot instead of passing there were 2 defenders between Khan and himself and it would have had to have been an inch perfect pass to be successful.

[GKing521]

Norwood hasn't played any higher than League One. We have a few other players who have also played at that level. 

The vast majority of his career has been spent in non-league. 

His arrogance astounds me. 

[Littlemoor Lad]

35 minutes ago, GKing521 said:

Norwood hasn't played any higher than League One. We have a few other players who have also played at that level. 

The vast majority of his career has been spent in non-league. 

His arrogance astounds me. 

This is our marquee signing you're talking about

[JoeP]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

I agree about him being fed up and/or regretting the move. But I think it’s for slightly different reasons than you mention. 
 

The Barnsley chairman said at the time they couldn’t match what we offered. I don’t blame him one bit for taking the money in a short career.  But once here I think he saw the standard, compared it what he had left and didn’t want to be here. Maybe if he had signed this summer and gone into a much better side we’d see the best version of him. But I think the rot has set in now.  He has struggled to adapt at this stage of his career to playing with lesser players, and it’s affected his own game.  Career moves made purely for the money can often be regretted. . 
 

In the Beckham Doc, the talking heads discuss his move to America From Real Madrid. They made him an unbelievable financial offer. But when he arrived he saw the standard and found it really difficult to adjust, he wanted out because he knew he was miles better than the vast majority of them. He fell out with some players, and got a loan to Milan. When he came back he made up with the players, realised he had to make the best of it and they went onto to win the league. 

 

Yes, that's all right.  The money we were spending and Unsworth's vision probably gave him the impression we were going to go for it.  Recruitment and management were so bad though that that's not how it panned out.   

 

He could've made the best of it by passing on his experience, encouraged (rather than criticising..), tried to adapt his game or just been some sort of role model for the younger players.  I'm not getting any of that.  He just seems unhappy.  He was seen as a coup and is probably one of the best paid players we've had - not his fault as you say, but he should have some pride in that.  There was a lot of expectation hence the extensive discussion.

 

Meh, if he pull it out of the bag and contributes to getting us up, it'll be worth it but I'd still be tempted to shake hands and go our separate ways in the summer.

 

We ain't the James Norwood show anymore.  We've got a team who are working.  His involvement is becoming more and more irrelevant..

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:29 PM by JoeP

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

1 hour ago, League one forever said:

But once here I think he saw the standard, compared it what he had left and didn’t want to be here.

 

You do know he's played at this level before, right? 

 

FWIW, I still don't think he's 100& fit and sharp. There's Royal Family Harry and Meghan levels of cross examining about his body language going on and how he comes across on the pitch and, had players had the foresight to pick him out like Gardener did at Altrincham, we'd be looking at a striker who's scored 5 goals in as many matches. It's then a wholly different conversion.

 

Like others have said, MM isn't a bad judge of character and JN knows the standards he sets.

 

 

[nzlatic]

4 wins, 4 draws since Norwood came back into the side. If his disinterest/arrogance/ego/attitude etc is supposed to be disrupting team morale then he's doing a shit job of it.

[League one forever]

11 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

There's Royal Family Harry and Meghan levels of cross examining about his body language going on and how he comes across on the pitch

That’s only because of this- 

 

17 minutes ago, JoeP said:

He was seen as a coup and is probably one of the best paid players we've had - not his fault as you say, but he should have some pride in that.  There was a lot of expectation hence the extensive discussion.

Money, status, pedigree, all affect how a player is scrutinised. Reid has done far worse than Norwood for any team morale/conduct/professionalism but no one’s overly arsed- because he a pretty standard player. Quite easily replaced. 
 

13 minutes ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

Like others have said, MM isn't a bad judge of character and JN knows the standards he sets.

Agreed, and I’m sure he’ll still contribute at times. Just not to level I was expecting or hoping. 

[Littlemoor Lad]

12 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

4 wins, 4 draws since Norwood came back into the side. If his disinterest/arrogance/ego/attitude etc is supposed to be disrupting team morale then he's doing a shit job of it.

No matter what you're suggesting 

Norwood is paid to score goals and take the lead is he not?

If he isn't doing this, we need another Striker that will

[Worcester Owl]

Surely the Norwood debate has been done to death now. We’ve won 4 on the trot for the first time in a while, yet some people want to speculate over his state of mind. Nobody knows whether he is happy here or not, so what’s the point of speculating?

FWIW, I don’t care if he smiles beatifically and/or kisses every team mate in the warm up/during/after the game. He’s here to score goals, plain and simple. If he doesn’t, I have no reason to think MM will not judge him accordingly. Just as I have no reason to think MM, with his track record and the start to this season we’ve made, doesn’t know what good looks like.

[yarddog73]

Anyone else bored of hearing those for and against now or is it just me, there's got to be only so many times you can publish your position.

 

I think we know who likes him and who doesn't now, let's move on.

[GlossopLatic]

6 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Anyone else bored of hearing those for and against now or is it just me, there's got to be only so many times you can publish your position.

 

I think we know who likes him and who doesn't now, let's move on.

 

Yeah it's becoming abit tiring now. I rate James Norwood I rate Mike Fondop

 

Micky Mellon has shown in his 12 months here that he has no problem weilding the axe on players he doesn't want so if James Norwood was a problem or a negative influence in the team he'd be either out the door  already or sat with Alex Reid kicking his heels on a Saturday he's neither, he an integral part of team.

[spanishfly]

4 hours ago, Scapegoat said:

Norwood:

He scored 17 in 40 league games 23/24, which is a very creditable return.  But when you look at the details, he only scored 3 after the New Year (all penalties) and this year has just the one (edit 2)  to date.....so I think it's reasonable that there will be some grumbling.

Since 30/12/23 Fondop has scored more than double the league goals Norwood has (12 as against 5). Big Mike deserves more respect for his contribution and it baffles me why Norwood almost seems like a footballing demi- god to some. I`ll caveat by saying I only started watching again in January and so far have yet to see the "real" JN. I hope I do soon.   

[spanishfly]

35 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

Anyone else bored of hearing those for and against now or is it just me, there's got to be only so many times you can publish your position.

 

I think we know who likes him and who doesn't now, let's move on.

 

23 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Yeah it's becoming abit tiring now. I rate James Norwood I rate Mike Fondop

 

Micky Mellon has shown in his 12 months here that he has no problem weilding the axe on players he doesn't want so if James Norwood was a problem or a negative influence in the team he'd be either out the door  already or sat with Alex Reid kicking his heels on a Saturday he's neither, he an integral part of team.

Agreed ! Saw too late

[Littlemoor Lad]

7 hours ago, spanishfly said:

Since 30/12/23 Fondop has scored more than double the league goals Norwood has (12 as against 5). Big Mike deserves more respect for his contribution and it baffles me why Norwood almost seems like a footballing demi- god to some. I`ll caveat by saying I only started watching again in January and so far have yet to see the "real" JN. I hope I do soon.   

I don't dislike Norwood as @yarddog73 has made out but I'm extremely disappointed at a time when we might just have a serious chance of getting out of this God forsaken league, his contribution is the least.

Even half of last season's Norwood might clinch it? we can only hope he gets going and fires us to the top.

That's the end of it.

 

[Pidge]

9 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

Yeah it's becoming abit tiring now. I rate James Norwood I rate Mike Fondop

 

Micky Mellon has shown in his 12 months here that he has no problem weilding the axe on players he doesn't want so if James Norwood was a problem or a negative influence in the team he'd be either out the door  already or sat with Alex Reid kicking his heels on a Saturday he's neither, he an integral part of team.

At the end of last season MM suggested he wanted to make wholesale changes but was unable to get rid of all those he wanted to because of those on longer contracts.

 

He has clearly done his best this summer to move those he could and get the rest back behind him. We won’t really see who he wanted to move but couldn’t, until next summer.